Helpless Dad

Personally...I would leave him at home with the twins when he has a day off. Make him a list of things that need done around the house and with the twins. Go away for the afternoon. When you get home, he'll have a better appreciation for you.

Nanc

Have you asked for help i.e "would you mind giving the girls a bath tonight?" and he said no? Or "I would like to go to the gym tonight do you want to watch the girls or should we hire a baby sitter". Every family needs to find their balance or way to deal with this. In my house we got an Au pair. I know others who rely on family members like sisters and mother in laws and friends for breaks.

Unfortunately most men just do not get it. It wasn't until I had 102 degree temp and strep throat that my husband got it. He had no choice and after a day of being me he was a whole different person. My husband is also a wonderful man and I was a SAHM as well. I just think because I handled everything he just assumed I didn't need anything else. I think you just have to plan your own mommy time and he will just have to pitch in. You should make a date night with him and go for dinner so you can talk. Tell him how you are feeling and that sometimes you just need a break. It is better to talk when you are calm and not feeling angry. Trust me if you do not talk about this now you will begin to resent him and that in itself can damage your marriage. You are not alone most of us have felt this way at one time or another. It really ticks me off when men assume just because there's no paycheck coming in that being a SAHM is a walk in the park. I did it for 15 years so I know how difficult it can be. I would just be very clear about the role each of you will play. Maybe take turns every other night he has to do bath and bed while you take a break. The best way to have someone understand how you are feeling is to have them walk in your shoes. Make a day out for yourself to go Christmas shopping and leave him home all day with the kids I can guarantee he will have a whole different perspective on how hard you work. Good luck!!

Interesting. you are not alone.
I have twins too. I quit my job to be home with my kids.
I do laundry, cook, clean, read to my kids, teach, take them to playdates, entertain their playdates. fix their lunch bag, get them dressed, brush teeth, brush hair, ponytails, drive back and fourth. take them to karate.
my husband works.
therefore he pays bills.
I thought I was the only one. after my kids were born and i was convinced i was never going to sleep at night, ever again. I let it go for a year. i thought all moms do it, why the hell am i the only one seeing something wrong with this picture.
year 2. i had enough. sure, i had asked him from time to time if he could help me out with this and that. sure he happily obliged. but i get exhausted by asking too. the questions that follow got me even more exhausted: where are their socks? where are their gloves? what should i make for them for lunch? THEY GET JUICE TOO??? WOOWWW? so i'd run around and get the stuff he had no idea where it was. he counted it as he helped me. i counted it as i just got even more exhausted. so one weekend i got him by his hands and showed him where everything is. i told him bathtime was his from now on. brushing teeth and night was his from now on. putting jammies on one of the twins was HIS from now on. and i did it. i didn't ask. i told him.
so now he mumbles when it's bathtime and says pretty soon i won't be able to bathe them anymore so you'll have to bathe them. i am thinking, i will teach them how to take a shower. my back hurts during bathtime. they like to bathe in my bathtub, this huge huge thing. i just don't enjoy bathtime.
so i still do everything else. but at least i know during bathtime, those 15 minutes afre mine
:)
so i say, yes, no husband wants to help but the kids should be a shared responsibility
oh by the way, i just asked him for a cleaning lady twice a month. we had one, but didn't like her so he never tried finding another one. i found one for him, gave him the number and told him i want her twice a month. just cleaning 3 and a half bathrooms takes me hours.
ya, i say get him working.

You're a SAHM, and your hubby got you a cleaning lady? You're lucky. I often thought it would be easier for me to be a SAHM, so I could spend more time cleaning my house and picking my son up from school. I'm the opposite, I wish my hubby wouldn't help. Sure I appreciate him, but the laundry isn't done the way I'd like it done...He insists on doing it. I don't know about your hubby, but mine does a lot of other things too like the lawn, snow removal, tries to fix leaks, and tries to fix other stuff around the house plus afterschools the kid. (A little too much, lol.)

I really think you just need to sit down with your hubby and have a peaceful talk about how overwhelmed and bored you feel. You need to calmly let him know what you would like help with. Maybe the 2 of you just need a "date" once in a while away from the kids or a family night. Just be careful what you ask for.

Im sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately for him, he is missing out on the greatest gifts of time with his children. I am also a sahm to 2 girls, 3 and 5 and my husband makes it his business to be involved in every aspect of their lives when time permits. Have you ever thought about doing role reversal for a day so that he can see just what it's like to take care of the kids on a daily basis. My husband has always been very hands on and even with that, sometimes he makes light of what goes on around here on a daily basis. The other option you have is, if you have not already done it, put the kids in some sort of morning program so that you can have a little bit of "you" time during the day. Don't feel like you are asking for too much, being a mom is the most difficult job in the world, but it comes with the most rewards.

My husband will literally tell me "All you had to do was ask and I would have helped get their shoes" as I would be seething trying to get the family out the door all by myself. So I think working dads really are clueless as to knowing "the family is going out - kids need to wear shoes", etc. So I agree with the posters that you probably need to sit down and have a big discussion with your husband. I probably wouldn't have done it on date night because I'm sure I'd cry once I started talking about it. But definitely wait until the kids are in bed. Make it seem like you aren't coming down on him - just that you need a little help/break at night and that he might not realize it. I often point out to my husband that I know his job is technically harder than mine, but mine is literally 24/7. Kids get up in the middle of the night and it's ME they want, not him.

Also great advise from the woman below who says when he does pitch in and play with the kids, be sure and close your ears to it. He will DEFINITELY play in a different way (or clean the kitchen a different way, give baths different, etc) and you can't start trying to correct how he does it, no matter how much you want to. It will make him just not want to help out even more.

Good luck. I feel it's a neverending issue here; just some times are better than others, and hopefully you will fall into a routine that works for your family.

My husband does a LOT to help, is very involved, and still I often feel like I need to tell him what to do, so I agree with others on that point about men. That being said, your husband's lack of involvement is completely and totally unacceptable. Both my husband and I work full time, and we both feel that being with our son all day is WAY more tiring then being at work! So heck yeah, you work your butt of all day! You are not a house slave, and he needs to wake up and join the 21st century and appreciate that you need a break and your own life and hobbies too, and that sharing responsibilities will also make you a better wife and mom-and he, a better father and husband. I think the advice is good to speak to him about it in a calm manner, and explain. I feel like my parents, and so many parents of my generation got divorced over this very issue. The thing is, it is not only an unfair division of labor, but a lack of respect and appreciation for you, so i would address it now before your resentment builds beyond the point of no return. Of course, for things to change, you will also need to give some tough love, AND be able to give up enough control that will enable him to develop his own ways of handling things, which may be different than yours. I struggle with this myself, but i do not advise micromanaging how he helps you. He needs to learn his own methods, however painful that might be! Good luck, and keep us posted!

my husband and I went through a very similar experience. my twins are 2 now and I still get frustrated sometimes when my husband doesn't help out with things that I think are obvious. Our first year with the twins was very trying on our marriage. My problem is that I would keep it to myself until I was so frustrated I would finally blow and it would turn into a huge argument. My husband would say that he couldn't read my mind and I needed to tell him what I wanted him to do. I realized that he really didn't know exactly what to do and when I asked for help (nicely that is) he would pitch in and help. I also realized that sometimes he was afraid to just jump in and help because I would often say "no, don't do that" or "not like that, like this". Although we still have our moments, things are better now that I express myself when I need to.

Dear M.,

let me be the Devil's Advocate for a moment here and tell you that you have not enabled him to be a helper in the past 3 years. Discuss the problem with him in a calm moment and don't blame it all on him but admit that you should have been better at adressing the problem earlier. Explain to him what the routine looks like, tell him what parts it would be great for him to help you. When the situation comes up, ask him to do one thing (ideally the more appealing) and also tell him what you are doing during that time.

M.,

Don't feel bad, you are not alone. I think I know more people in your position than are not. I don't think that the men are helpless and not good fathers or husbands. Just think they are clueless. It is not inate for them feel the need to help. They have to be asked to help out. From all the friends and family members I have we all complain about the same thing. Never see husbands offer to help, and when I do it is rare. It is always the mom doing all the work. What you need to do, which most of us always chat about is to slowly work them into the routine. few tasks here and there.

HA are you serious, of course there are others just like you in this world. My husband is the same way, you are lucky you have a cleaning lady. I have a set of twins and a little boy and I still do it all PLUS his expense reports for work PLUS pay the bills. He leaves on business for days on end, but the thought of me leaving for overnight just makes him cringe. I can't even sit at the computer when he is home, he thinks I am neglecting my children when I do. Trust me, you are not alone. Let me know if you figure out a way to get him to help, I'm all ears

My gosh you are not alone, my boyfriend who spends many evenings at my house has no clue either. After dinner he goes and lies on the bed while I bathe our son and then go clean the kithcen from dinner and then play with the child and all the while he is saying come sit with me. Maybe you can let him know if he pitches in a little there will be more time to relax together. When it comes to caring for the children you should not feel guilty letting him know you expect him to care for his daughters also. Start small maybe go to the grocery store alone and leave the kids with dad. or to the nail salon etc. best of luck, D.

I feel your pain. Sometimes my husband helps. And sometimes he doesn't. A good sugggestion is to talk to him about it. Have you discussed your feeling with him? Maybe you need to talk to him about you getting a "Me" day. Then he'll get it! Good luck!!

Teach him how to help you. Tell him you need him to ABC or 123 with the girls. Be specific. If you have tried that and have gotten no where, leave him alone with the girls for a day. Every other week you should have a day of "Beauty", relax however you relax. Go and take in a movie, get your hair and nails done, go to the gym or take that Saturday morning class you have always been interested in and leave the girls with him. You must help him develop a relationship with them. All relationships require time. Get some games he can play with the girls. There are alot of games out there. You have to do something. It's been 3 years. Time goes by too fast. Next thing you know they will be 16 and really need their father to teach them about men and boys. Some things are taught while other things are caught. Encourage him, maybe he is just a big chicken. I'm certain those little ladies have him wrapped around their little girly fingers.

Leave them the powerful legacy of learning how to effectively communicate through words and actions while fostering a healthy relationship between them and their father. No time like the present to start.

Hi M.
Yes, others have husbands that do nothing, but long before twins get to be 3 yo they figured out how to get their husbands to at least care for the kids. About the time my twin girls started walking I was reminded by his action that my husband has no idea what to do with the kids. The boys were 14yo, and 19yo when the twins were born. So, just as my mom had said when the boys were young, leave him with them, he'll figure it out. She thought I seemed to know everything and he seemed overwhelmed. When the twins came I left him with them at about 12 mo. They were getting around and into everything. He cleaned up all the powder in the bathroom, kettles in the kitchen, toilet paper from one end to the other. By the time I got home he had had the best lesson of his life, saying I just have to sit on the floor with them so they stay here and play, I can't watch tv or read, can you? I said I sat on the floor with one or both all day. From then on I cleaned the kitchen after supper and he watched the girls, I stayed out there as long as I could milk that time. I chose other similar times to force him into those duties, and closed my ears to how he played with them, because as my mom said"as long as you know he won't hurt them, and he takes care of them, men always do different than women and that is ok" Don't know what you can do at 3 to change a situation you allowed for 3 years. Talk about your needs, I guess, I am thankful for a mother who clued me in.
God bless you and give you peace.
K.

Hi M.,

I don't have a solution for you, but I CAN empathize.
I had three kids under four, and a daddy who did nothing to help. Ever. He didn't even want to be in the delivery room while I had them. Never changed a diaper, never fed anyone. I never pushed him to help, just accepted it. I felt very blessed to be a stay-at-home mom with a husband who supported us. Perhaps a gentle talk with your husband
would help?

Corrie Moone ("Grams")
from the Pocono Mts. of PA

Hmmmm... seems to me like there might be another issue here--are the kids spending any time with dad? All those little everyday tasks are important and dad should be involved if he wants to have a good relationship with the kids. I agree that you have already established a pattern that is obviously not helpful. I think the idea of a date night is wonderful. Both of you need time together and time to yourselves. A conversation about what your respective expectations are would be very helpful. Try not to talk at all to be accusitory or to focus on things that will start a fight. Instead, let your husband know that you need some more support (& acknowledgment of your very important work) in order to be happy and ask him if there are ways he would like to be more involved with the kids. He can select a couple "tasks" that will become his special time with the kids. It could be anything from cooking and serving breakfast on Saturdays while you take a bath to taking care of the nighly baths. Be kind to each other. Life is hard for us all so it's important to focus on loving each other and gently supporting each other. Keep in mind that there will never be a fully equal balance of here but with patience, you can come to an agreement that makes life better for everyone.

A cleaning lady... lucky you! I would sign-up for some kind of class that is a regular weekly "thing". You could take a course at a local community college, an art class, or some kind of activity. Leaving him for a day won't help him understand what you do all day. He'll be exhausted, but probably have a good time "playing".

My husband was like this before we had a child. We both work full-time, but I took care of all of the day-to-day activities (laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc) and he handled all of the "projects", which in his mind was equal. I started a graduate program and we had a baby while I was still in school. Essentially, he was "in charge" two nights a week and one weekend each month. Needless to say, he is now completely hands-on and understands that when I come home from work I need help! He changes diapers, feeds the little man and does dishes when they're in the sink.

Let him know that you are feeling closed-in (that's how it sounds) and that you would like to take an evening course. A couple of hours on a regular basis may be more impacting than a one-day deal.

Good luck!

M.,
It sounds like you knew what you were signing up for. Did he become "helpless" all of a sudden, or has he always been like that? I bet this is what you both agree to before you had three year old twins.... It sounds good in theory, but then you realize it is more work than you thought.
If your deal with him is that he would provide well for your family while you do "everything else", then you are probably now shocked that your end of the deal was not so easy after all. Since you have been together for so long and your daughters are already 3 years old, it seems like it would be quite difficult to re-negotiate the deal you've made. Talking with him will probably lead you to more frustration.
It sounds like if he can afford a cleaning lady, he can also afford daycare for your kids. Start putting your girls in daycare a couple of days a week. It will be good for them anyway, and good for you too. While the kids are in day care, make sure to schedule something for yourself, like taking a class or going to the gym. Soon enough your girls will need to go to school anyway, and they need the socialization and you need to get involved with other activities too, otherwise, you will be lonely and bored by the time they go to school full time in a year.
I don't think talking to your husband about this does any good. It just leads to fights and he will think that you are a whiner. If you still want him to help or at least realize what you do all day, only shock treatment works for that. Isn't there some kind of "emergency" you could have where you could leave him with the girls over a weekend? Don't worry, if you do that, it will take no time before he is able to figure it all out.

Crack the whip girlfriend!! Yes he works his 9-5 but ur working 24/7! I have 3 kids & my hubby works 1 1/2 hours commute each way plus his 8 hours a day & still helps me when he gets home. It maybe something as small as loading the dishwasher after dinner or bathing our 3 year old and putting her to bed but he helps. And on his days off 1 day he let's me sleep in a little & takes our 2 month old. He'll also sometimes do the laundry or vacumn the carpets and as for discipline it's a team effort too. Also once a month he stays w/ them & I go to book club @ night after he gets home from work. You need to sit him down & tell him what u expect of him cause maybe he thinks u have it all under control! If u don't u could grow to resent him & also can get burned out!

Sorry for the late response - my husband was like this before. I protested daily and did grow to resent him each time I complained and he STILL did nothing about it.

In the end, I found that walking away helped a ton. I now take hours off in the day, going up to the bedroom and locking the door so that he has no choice but to help. Or, I leave and go shopping or take a day off on a Saturday. Or, stop washing the dishes or only do babies' laundry. He got the message pretty quickly after that.

I agree with the other moms that you really have to spell it out, "can you please put her shoes on?" It seems obvious to us what needs to be done, but not to dad.

For bigger things, I would make a list and leave it where he can see it. For some reason, that works w/my hubby. When I say it out loud more than once, he says I'm "nagging" (although obviously I wouldn't have to nag if he would just do it). But when it's written, he somehow feels more accountable and he does it.

Unfortunately, your husband doesn't realize that as a SAHM, your work is NEVER done. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. He may also just not know what to do because you've never given him any responsibility. Casually and kindly, say things like, "Hey honey, can you give the girls a bath while I do _________?" And then keep it moving and do whatever it is you said you would do. He may ask for a little help in what to do, which is fine, but do not physically do it for him. And make plans to leave the house on the weekends and let him stay home. Go for a mani/pedi or some window shopping. Whatever the case, you leave and he stays with the kids. Leave for an hour or two initally so as not to overwhelm him. Also, have him help you when it's time to put them to bed. Read a book or tell them a story, something to include him. I saw a reality tv show episode where a SAHM to 3 kids gave her celebrity husband a bill one day. It had the break down of what a maid, chef, driver, nanny, cost in one day. Needless to say, he was baffled. Men are truly oblivious and it's really not always their fault. Start by including him in in some way. Small stuff initially. Let it even be the "fun" stuff, so he doesn't even know he's helping out! And then, try just talking to him. Let him know that he is your king and you appreciate his hard work in providing for his family but that you could really use some help with some small day-to-day things with the girls. Even if he could play with them while you do stuff around the house to keep them off your back. And when he does do something, praise him till the cows come home! Thank him and thank him some more. You need to be able to let go and let him do whatever he does to help without criticizing or micro-managing. It may not be the way you would have done it or maybe the way it's normally done, but the point is he did it. We moms/wives sometimes don't allow men to help when we criticize or take over a task because we feel our way is better. What you need is help, regardless in the form or manner in which he provides it to you! Men just need a little guidance and nurturing, and lots of praise. You don't want to resent him, it can destroy your marriage. Hope it helps!

Your husband is not helpless -- he's just not helpful. I recently returned to work FT and I can certainly attest to the FACT that staying at home all ay with a child (I only have 1 kid) is MUCH HARDER than working with adults all day.
My suggestion -- you'll need to negotiatie a new home life for yourself at home. Think long and hard about what you want/need to continue to be effective and affectionate (I assume your affection towards him will soon dwindle if it hasn't already b/c you are just too plumb tired). Do you need all day Saturday to yourself (be very specific -- from 6am until 9pm on saturdays for instance). Have you given any thought to returning to work -- at least PT outside of the home? I find amongst the people I know -- working outside of the home is the fastest way to "equalize" the paying field or caregiving.

If you continue to plan to stay at home -- be very specific about the various jobs around the house that need to be done -- perhaps give him certain rooms that he is responsible for every week. And see if that works for you (didn't work for me -- but I tried) :)

What was his home life like when growing up as a child -- did his mom do all the housework and now that's what's he's expecting? this will provide insight into his expectations.

I'm a fan of renegotiating.

Much luck to you.

There's an obvious reason why he "has NO clue what a day to day routine is around" - you've been letting him get away with not being involved for three whole years! Have you asked him to help and he has refused, or have you not asked at all and assumed he would volunteer? If it's the latter, then you have a lot to learn about men : ) Men need to be given specific tasks, or they won't have any idea what to do, and will assume everything is okay unless you tell them. If it's a case of the former, where he refuses to help even when asked to perform specific tasks, then that is a much harder problem to solve, especially since you've acquiesed for three years already. Not sure what you'll be able to do to change that situation without causing a huge fight, especially since you've probably been acting like you agree with him all these year (which I suspect since you say that you're not even sure if he should be doing more). Sorry I can't help you more.

Two thoughts:
One, there's a book called the 5 languages of love. Short read, but pretty enlightening on how we may be wanting to give or receive love in one way, but it's not the same as the other person, and we miss out on receiving their giving as love and burn a lot of energy loving them in ways that they don't "get." You can look it up online.

Two, plan a day out. (One weekend, each of you get a full day away -- with the guys or girls, or just running the errands you always wish you had time for.) 8 hours -- and no "helping" the other person. Sometimes we women help so much that the men feel like they wouldn't even know where to start. (I know I criticize my husband when he's making the boy's lunches -- he doesn't know the details of things -- but the only way he'll learn is trial and error and we can't protect them without squelching them!) So let him have a day, and trust him to be okay while you're gone. And then let him have a day out with no family guilt!

It's amazing how comfortable men can be with doing absolutely nothing. I feel you pain but have no definite solutions. I am a full time working mom of a 4year old and I really long for another child but when I notice how little my husband helps, it is such a turn off for me... I get annoyed that we even consider it "helping" instead of "parenting". I don't understand how you can make another human being and need to be told every single things or you just do nothing. I often wonder what would happened if I just suddenly decided to go vacation for a month. Just left and did not call etc for an entire month.

I couldn't do it because I would be sick with worry over my daughter but I do wonder. Sorry if this is not very helpful. I've tried making list, chore charts, heart to heart conversation etc. They work for a week or two and then he just returns to his usually ways.

Try counseling, that may be my next route.

M.,
Grin and bear it if you knew about it before you married him or they were born.

Introduce little things along the way.

My DH is currently setting up DS to be a Daddy's boy by working all the time and doing homework, and when he wants attention, doesn't answer until after 3-10 asks (yes, my DS will ask for Dada's attention that much and finally get it after calling him by his GIVEN name (what I have to use most times to get any of his attention also)). He won't go to DS when he is in distress until I am nearly there, and then pick him up as if I were the worst Mom and comfort him and not let him go. It doesn't happen often, but it happens. DS adores and worships DH and he knows it.

DH knows day-to-day and makes a point of telling me I don't do enough, to boot. I am coping with 11+ years of bachelor living and no place to put things, and he expects M. Stewart. He also somewhere along the line expected me to learn how to cook.

Sounds like I'm griping back at you - but all I am doing is illustrating that if that is what you had before the babies, babies don't change anything.

He has to SEE other men modeling what you want him to do. It's sad, but a lot of people weren't taught to be self-motivated by the school systems we have. That's only one part of the dilemma.

If and when he sees the modeling, he has to agree with it and see also that he is capable of doing the same for his children.

Where you're going to get that kind of modeling? Find a home school community. It's the only place I can think of. Another would be a very Christian household; but even then, you don't necessarily have someone who is willing to open up and share.

Look into Waldorf education for your children. Teach them as BEST _YOU_ can.

I have a lot of other stuff, but my own DS is waking from his nap and I'm off and running,
Good luck, email me if you wish/want more,
M.

PS: mine knows what to do. he's not helpless. He just plays the part. He's from a family of 9.

Hi M.,
You mentioned that you expected once you had kids, he's be more hands on. Does this mean that you were responsible for all household chores when you were married, but working and without kids? He isn't going to suddenly change.
Two things
First, some men simply do not know, and must be told, that his job is 9-6 or whatever it is, 5 days a week. Mothers who don't hold an outside job do not need to work 24/7, they are caring for the kids during the day instead of them going to daycare. He isn't expected to work 24/7, and neither should a mom. You being at home does not excuse him from taking care of his kids - and while he may be saying he's expecting this of you because you stay home, trust me, this type of man would not take on any more responsibility if you were working.
Second, it's in the expectation. You (and many other moms) say that they'd like hubby to "help." Using that language indicates that you expect that you ARE responsible for everything and he is "helping you out" by doing housework or childcare. My husband and I had a coparenting relationship from the very beginning. It was never assumed that the care of the children was solely or even primarily my responsibility. He was not a helper, he was an equal parent with equal responsibility. Three years into parenting, I think it would be pretty hard for him to suddenly buy into the idea that taking care of the kids isn't "doing you a favor."
Good luck

I also have twins. Only I work fulltime commuting to Manhattan every weekday and I am still responsible for 90% of the childrearing and releasing the nanny after work, etc. So I'd take your situation over mine, at least I would be able to stop working! Plus you have a housekeeper. Sounds pretty good to me!