Entitlement

Bottom line: Kids do not deserve to be punished because their parents are a couple of days late paying their lunch accounts.

Kris S. says it best. Save the rage for the corporate fat cats. Why expend it on schools, which have enough problems as it is?

And teaching parents a lesson by sending their kids home hungry affects two other groups you don't consider: Teachers and the other students.

I'd love to know how TEACHERS feel about lunch. Imagine being a teacher facing kids who just went without lunch. The kids are going to learn nothing the rest of that day, and the teacher will have to handle them. I'd bet teachers would favor putting something, anything, in those kids' stomachs so the kids can think and focus, rather than "teaching the parents a lesson" by letting the kids go without. The kids will go without more than a meal -- they'll go without the afternoon's lessons because they won't be able to focus, and it'll be the teachers and other students who pay the price.

i wonder if Lesley B was "chewing out" the lunch lady for not allowing her son to eat - OR - for being rude about it. if it was the tone and attitude alone that was the problem, then that complaint should have gone to the person's supervisor. causing a confrontation, being rude back is never the right thing to do, i'm sorry. we all know this deep down.

anyway, i wouldn't behead you S.. but i do believe it wouldn't take long for someone to ;)

S.,

I will pay my taxes willingly to your kingdom. Seriously.
I could write more than anyone would ever want to read on the petty manifestations of contemporary entitlement-- anything from "I'm entitled to a meal out so if my kid is running around the restaurant and pestering you at your table, that's your problem" to "I'm entitled to wear my clothes how I like so if you have to see my underpants because I like my pants below my butt... that's your problem."

But here's a true, great story...Our school's secretaries are busy ladies. I volunteer there and rarely see them sitting down-- they are always helping someone. One of them recently got a call from an angry parent, who informed the secretary that their child had "lost their jacket at school, and I need to know what you are going to do about it?"

WTH? Yet, the secretary calmly said "Weeeellllll, I didn't wear the jacket, but if you describe it, I'll let you know if we find it."

Never mind that she had more people waiting for her help.
Never mind that there is a rather organized "Lost and Found" rack in the front hallway and that once a month or so, all of the hats,mittens, etc. are also laid out rather nicely on the front table.
Never mind that on any morning, when I say goodbye to my son and leave the school, there are coats and jackets flung all over the playground. When I go to volunteer in the library, kids leave clothing in there too.

If we continue to babysit our children over every.little.thing, we are only going to raise incapable children. If we teach our children to expect that they can just 'charge' what they want with impunity at school, they will repeat those habits as adults, which could financially ruin them. Other than our mortgage and a couple of medical bills, we don't carry debt in our house. We don't use credit cards to buy stuff (online, otherwise we debit or cash) if we don't have the money to pay it off immediately.

High-stress/short term is a great way to teach important lessons to our kids and ourselves, if we are willing to accept responsibilities for our oversights and mistakes. At almost six, I wouldn't let my son go without lunch, but I have-- quite a few times-- told him "Wow, bummer!" when he forgot his item for sharing (show and tell). "Guess you'd better make sure it gets in your backpack next time, huh?"

ETA: and I think we've lost track of one important piece of what S. is discussing-- these are OLDER kids. Not wee little ones. 10-15 year olds. Being hungry for an afternoon is hard, but it is ONE afternoon. And then they say something to their folks about getting more money on the card.

Mostly I agree with Kris and Julie.

I'm not sure whether I agree that lunch should be provided, or not, but this is not a black and white issue, essentially. I will here repeat Kris' quite valid comment: "If you want to get upset about tax payer money being spent, turn your attention to the "entitlements" (i.e. subsidies) that are being given to oil companies that are seeing record profits or to the financial shenanigans that big banks and credit card companies continue to be able to do and then still receive public bailout money to reward their BAD choices."

The British system is not the US system. We have had school lunch programs for a very long time, this is nothing new. I am nearly 50 and we had school lunches when I was in school. Kids in need pay less, kids who aren't in need pay more, there has always government subsidies to help cover some of the cost. What does any of this have to do with parents being responsible parents? My kid happens to bring lunch from home because he doesn't like school lunch. Does that make me a better parent? Really?

I think I must have really missed the point of your argument. I typically agree with your responses and comments, but I feel like you are really missing something here. If you want to get upset about tax payer money being spent, turn your attention to the "entitlements" (i.e. subsidies) that are being given to oil companies that are seeing record profits or to the financial shenanigans that big banks and credit card companies continue to be able to do and then still receive public bailout money to reward their BAD choices.

I fail to see the point of picking on a school lunch program.

No, I wouldn't behead you! I pretty much feel the same way.

Something about school lunches seems to get people all in a tizzy.

There *is* nuance to many of these issues but in this country we tend to root for our "team." We've been trained that way. Skins v. shirts. Yankees v. Red Sox. R's v. D's.

It's profitable to keep us divided and shaming and pointing fingers at each other.

Sigh.

An aging woman (65) who grew up before personal computers were even available, I wonder whether "entitlement" is quite the issue. To me, the amount of information and notices and calendars and event possibilities that my friendly (and ever-more indispensable) electronic devices throw my way grows by the month. There is WAY more than I can begin to keep track of myself, and it gets harder as I get older. (ADDED: It's also way more than I could have tracked as a young woman.)

So, I'd agree with "poor memory," with "information overload," with "sloppy thinking," even. The adults who have trouble keeping track may even be the grown children that were instructed with endless lists of cautions, rules, fences – they didn't have to think about whether it was safe to lean over the edge of a cliff in a park, or whether they should use the hair dryer in the bathtub, or whether they should spray a product in their eyes. I think it's awfully hard to develop "common sense" or even memory tricks under those circumstances.

But if I sent my child to school believing I had her lunch account covered, and then heard that she was treated as "not deserving" by the lunch ladies, I would be shocked. That's not about "entitlement," it's about the basic good manners and kindness that we all (I think?) want our children to learn. Telling a child he/she's not deserving of something as basic as food for a parent's failure strikes me as being a terrible example. And in a school, no less. Why can't the lunch lady just tell the child truthfully that her "account isn't paid, so no lunch today, sorry." If I were the lunch lady, I would have paid the lunch out of my own pocket – I've had periods of my life that were extremely hungry, and not only does it physically hurt, it makes it hard to concentrate on anything else, like lessons.

No beheading required for you, my dear, but I sure wish I could grow an extra brain myself.

Nope. I think we have a society that is soft and babied along. Take responsibility for your actions. No kid is ever going to starve to death from missing a meal, but they may learn to be responsible. I say quit bailing people out! This is getting ridiculous.

Sorry, I do NOT agree with any instance of denying a child food in school...period. That whole situation was handled beyond badly, which was admitted freely up front.

That being said, WTH. I do not understand how parents can be so sorry as to allow their children to go to school without arrangements for lunch. It is SO easy nowadays with the online accounts to make sure your child has money for lunch. My son's school is begging for folks to fill out the free lunch forms because they get Title I federal funding for having a large percentage of kids on free lunch. I don't even think that there are income verification checks to get the free lunches.

I DO blame the parents for letting the situation escalate to this level.

AMEN - Queen S.!!!!

Could you please reconsider your squandered talents in whatever you have been up to and pursue a new path in public policy lunch programs???

Oh....oh, no, that would mean your common sense would be in jeopardy, and that might lead to a beheading of sorts.

In Canada, there are NO lunch programs. Consequently, there are no kids without lunch. Parents better stay on top of it. They are not allowed to bum in elementary school, but they do in middle school for sure.

No, S., I would not.
I agree.
Get this--I had to TAKE my lunch
Money with me to school on the days I would buy. (GASP!!)
No automated system, no low balance notifications.
How many days do I remember not having lunch? O.. When I dropped my (metal) lunchbox and my Thermos shattered and dirt got into my food.
If people are so adamant about making sure their kid eats, then they should give them money or PACK a lunch.
Gotta say, 5 years into the school experience, it disgusts me how many families think the rules don't apply to them. You know the ones? Always too busy to send in the required project materials, too important to send in forms in time, etc.

The situation was handled stupidly. From what I understand, their balances were low. For whatever reason, they got to the end of the line WITH full trays of food and at that point were told that there was not enough. The food was then taken away from the kids and THROWN OUT. THAT's the problem I have. See if the kids have money. Or send them home with a bill and let them eat the food.

Or better yet, set up the line so that there is a way to check the balance before the kids get in line. That would actually make sense.

Parents get busy, they work, they have other kids at home, they volunteer, etc....they are so imperfect. I think that a child should never go hungry due to a parents choices.

I do think that the schools should have a way of letting the parents know when the monthly meal plan is getting low, so the kids do not have to go without food.

Food is not a choice we get to make or not. It is required by our bodies to live. Kids who do not eat good nutrition will not pay attention, they will not be able to focus, they will not learn anything.

If your kids school denied them lunch for any other reason that is their choice, like talking in line or walking too fast in the cafeteria, you'd be up there throwing a fit because they didn't allow your child to eat.

So if the school doesn't feed your child for any reason they should be held accountable.

Parents should remember to check the balance on the meal plan. Parents should call the lunchroom any time they need to to check on the balance. They should make timely payments. But as a parent I have to admit I am imperfect. I forget. I get distracted and busy. I appreciate the school letting me know when things need to be paid or done.

S. - oh my word!! I will NOT behead you!!!

I love that you see what a waste many of the entitlement programs are! How much of WE THE PEOPLE's money is squandered!!

Nope, no beheading here.

My response to the school lunch program was that the PARENT had an EPIC fail. Like Jo had pointed out - these people (what 25 in all?) had over $1,800 - ONE THOUSAND EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS - in unpaid bills....

Like you - our system is set up - we get stickers and phone calls (robo-calls) and e-mails...we also have the "mylunchmoney.com" account so my kids account NEVER goes below $5.00. It is does automatically when the account reaches $5.00 - we get an e-mail stating the funds will be transferred. Sorry - I didn't include that information on the school lunch question.

There is really no reason for any child to go without.

Thanks!!! GREAT QUESTION! Great thoughts!!

Amen, sista!! I think you are so right on. So much money is wasted babysitting adults, it's ridiculous. You are absolutely right - when I didn't have lunch money, my friends shared or lent me money, or I dealt with it and ate when I got home. I still did well in school and didn't starve to death. And guess what? My mom was always on the cusp of qualifying for "help", but never quite did and she did this thing called budgeting and she somehow still fed me while always scraping by!! If I see one more person getting things for free while driving a nicer car than me and talking on a nicer phone than me, I'm going to puke, seriously.

Even my employer feels compelled to send grown adults reminders to enter their time every 2 weeks! And the appointment reminders and the car service reminders and the vet reminders and the reminders of DD's days off of school that are all received multiple times. I am a grown adult, I know what the deal is, I don't need to be babysat and reminded about everything I need to do. It's called being responsible. Everyone has calendars on their phones nowadays or a computer program for appointments. How in the world did our parents function without all of this coddling?!! I think they raised a more responsible and independent group of people.

I see the spoiled and entitled nature of modern kids and I am finding myself already filtering some of DD's friends out because I can already tell that they are not being parented the way DD is and they are not going to be good influences. When I say DD can't play, it means she can't play. It doesn't mean you get to question an adult and try to get her to justify her reasoning. Seriously!! Let's not even get on THAT topic!!

I would be beheaded right along side you, my queen!

Christy Lee hit the nail on the head.
The problem with the whole lunch account system is it takes the responsibility out of the children's hands.
I took my lunch ticket to school every day (kids either bought these by bringing money to school, or they qualified for free ones under the state) or I brought a sandwich, starting in first grade. We didn't stay for lunch in K.
My mom didn't remind me to do this, other than signing me up for free lunch at the beginning of the year she was pretty oblivious about all things "parental" and therefore I was responsible for myself on a day to day basis.
Parents nowadays insist on all these systems and safety nets and God forbid a child should miss a meal and children shouldn't suffer because their parents are too busy to keep up with their child's account, blah, blah, blah.
I just don't get it.
Today, in some ways, kids are NOT growing up too fast, they are being babied to a point where it's everyone else's fault but theirs. "I forgot my lunch, my homework, my permission slip" and it doesn't matter because their parents are making sure there's always someone else swooping in to save them.
Sorry for the rant, but not teaching our children a sense of personal responsibility is a real pet peeve of mine. If they don't learn it at home they should at LEAST learn it at school.
You forgot your lunch? Here's an apple.
They'll remember next time.

I am in Canada, so I guess it is still the dark ages here. We do not have cafeterias in elementary schools here. Kids bring lunch (or walk home, in the snow). All we provide is milk, and only if you pay. If a child forgets lunch mom and dad get a phone call and are expected to bring the child something to eat. Middle schools have a lunch counter that operates on cash only, but most kids still bring lunch, eating at the lunch counter is considered a treat. High schools have cafeterias, but again only if you pay. There are no accounts, cash only. By middle school and high school if a kid forgets to bring a lunch they are old enough to go home and get something to eat.

I won't be screaming 'off with your head'.

Some people can whip themselves into a frenzy over anything/everything.
They thrive on the drama and emotional self flagellation.

Missing one meal isn't going to hurt anyone.
I don't think public education should be in the restaurant business.
If a family is so poor that they are not eating on a regular basis - social services can handle it at the home level.

oh S., no beheading for you. it was the parents' fault, and they should be outraged, at themselves for forgetting to pay for lunches. if they couldn't afford it, they should have packed kids' lunch. but what do we do with that sense of entitlement? the one that says, if i can't afford it, L. should provide it for us with her taxes. and i pay and pay and pay

Nobody seems to have to be accountable these days. How many kids' parents are perfectly capable of paying for the lunch but are "too busy" or wrapped up in themselves to make sure their kid has money on their account.

Did Hillary Clinton's book "It Takes a Village" cause this society where it is everybody else's responsibility to raise their kids so that they don't have to?

I feel that we are dumbing down society exponentially and there are no natural consequences to our actions. I don't think I like where society is going or where we will end up. I can't imagine what life will be like with "Generation Z".

I nominate you Queen S.!

well to start off with these weren't elementry kids these were middle schoolers. Middle schoolers understand " your balance is low". We aren't talking about 4 yr olds we're talking about 12 yr olds.

Anyway I agree with you. And in our school district we get emails, and repeated notes home are sent when the balance goes negative. and it takes a huge negative balance before they resort to the alternate lunch.

If you stick to your subjects acting like adults, I'll not behead you.

I'll just use my same answer from the other post:

I haven't attend public school a day in my life, and my Catholic school had no hot lunch program. But, my school would never have let a child go without lunch. The secretary kept a refrigerator in her office with PB&J sandwiches or cheese sandwiches, and we kids gave part of our lunches to the kids without lunch.

It is disgusting that they made the children THROW AWAY THE FOOD! How wasteful and cruel--there obviously wasn't a shortage of food if they could afford to throw it out.

That being said, why are these parents not angry with THEMSELVES for not funding their kids' lunch accounts? I wonder what kind of communication might have already happened (or not) about the lunch accounts being low or empty. The parents need to step up to the plate (pun intended) at some point.

ETA: My school didn't have a problem with kids who constantly forgot their lunch--the cheese sandwiches were very bare bones, so no one REALLY wanted to have to eat it. We had a few kids who were impoverished and attending our school for free--the teachers made sure those kids were fed well, and not just the cheese sandwich. It is a very Christian thing to take care of each other--we just don't need the government to do it.

I agree with most of what you're saying. I do HATE wasting food so the fact that the kids lunches went into the trash is tough for me to swallow (like that pun;)?

I do agree something has happened in this country in regards to raising kids and accountability. It seems people are passing down this idea that someone will be there cover your rear for the rest of your life. "Don't worry little Billy, you're entitled to lunch no matter what". If you forget it, someone should bring it to you. If you drop it in the dirt someone should replace it and if Mom or Dad forgets to pay the bill you'll still eat.

As most of us remember it was NEVER that way when we were kids. I was responsible to purchase my OWN ticket and then not LOSE my ticket and present it at the hot lunch line. No ticket, no lunch, that simple.

I remember my Dad saying the current school system (think 1972) will eventually be crushed under the weight of it's own administration. Boy was he right. We are administrating and regulating our children out of a decent education. Ever look at the pay scale of district administrators compared to teachers in the classroom? How much are we spending to keep track of lunch accounts? I have no idea but I do know they are set up for the ease of the parents and if parents are handling them properly kids shouldn't eat. In our house we call that NATURAL CONSEQUENCES.

Thank goodness someone said it.

And to the people who worry about the kids being hungry the rest of the day - there are dozens of kids each day who don't eat their school lunches. They aren't starving.

The problem is the vast inequity in America. The rules of the game aren't set up fairly, so a large percentage of folks are getting royally screwed. When the top percentile has increased their income by 500% in the last 30 years, while everyone else has seen their wages go down, you know there is a problem.

Interestingly enough, the poor are the ones who donate the highest percent of their income. The latest research shows how the well off (1) cheat the system more, (2) donate less, and (3) feel entitled.

This is a complicated issue, and I wish it was as simple as grown-ups being responsible for themselves and their kids. Trust me, I get so pissed off when I think of all the women on public aid getting free formula, when they could just be bloody breastfeeding! There is no incentive to learn how to breastfeed if the govt just gives away free food....My one friend I complain about here a lot tried to breastfeed for 3 weeks. 3 Weeks! That's it! Yet, we can't let baby's starve because their moms are lazy. These same women then spend public dollars buying banana baby food in a jar. Hello? Make your own damn baby food! Just mash up the damn bananas! My same friend (a trained pastry chef, btw), buys jar baby food! She also buys those expensive squeeze bottle baby food bags! I have money, and I would NEVER waste my money on such nonsense! (I have retirement and college accounts to fund, after all, while my friend doesn't).

Yet, we can't let little kids (1 in 4 of which live in poverty) suffer because their parents suck: The system makes sure these same kids end up living in poverty for all eternity.

The system is broken, and I hope that at some point we begin to question why productivity has gone up, but real wages have gone down. We can't just serve capital, we need to serve actual human beings.

Short answer: I wouldn't behead you S., I would, however, argue you with. I'd hope to get you to agree that we have to begin our revolution by literally blowing up public education as we know it, which would require beheading everyone in the vast bureaucracy that serves it.

---

it just dawned on me that I may not really understand what you are bitching about. Did I miss some post on school lunches or something?

As for the lunch question, at my sons school he has gone over his account a few times because they have never sent a note home or called saying "hey your child needs lunch money!" So by the time he did he would be at least 10-15$ over. Maybe those parents were considered working poor, and didnt have the money to send. Maybe that was the only meal those kids ate that day. There was a lunch program at my sons old school that provided backpacks with meals for the weekend for some of the families. Heck that school also gave EVERYONE FREE breakfast and lunch. It's not a sense of entitlement, food is a basic need not a luxury.

I will not behead you but your head will probably explode when I lay this one on you. My stepson wants to eat only junk (long story dealing with an ex but I'll spare you). We offer him many, many options for his lunches. Yes, we let him have input. His father and I have packed him lunches for years. You know what he does? He throws them out then goes through the lunch line and buys junk a la carte - cookies, ice cream, chocolate milk... He charges it to his account and we end up getting calls and letters. We have BEGGED that he not be given an account at all. Nope, all children have to have an account. Okay, don't give him any credit. Nope, all children get to charge up to $5 before they are cut off. If they reach that, they are still given a PB&J sandwich and milk which we are charged for as well! When he was in elementary school, we refused to pay one year. Told the principal that we had repeatedly requested that credit not be issued to him. The principal was aware of his behavior problems in that and other areas. At the end of the year, they told us he would not be allowed to return to school the following year until we paid and then he would be reported as truant if he didn't show up! So we had to pay. What a bunch of BS!!! He still does it but when we get the robo calls, we make him go get his own $, show it to us and put it in his backpack to pay. It's still a major pain and personally, I think he should experience some tummy pangs. Maybe that would teach him to stop throwing away perfectly good food! What are we teaching our children? We wonder why people have no self control and no sense of responsibility!

I hope your thoughts on social
Security being an entitlement. People have been paying I to the system the day they started working. Same holds true for Medicare

Our school also has the free lunch all summer long program. I don't really think much of that food gets eaten as most of the poor kids are driven to the school from out of district (choice school). The ones in the neighborhood have enough money to feed their kids at home. Waste of money and time IMO, but it's there because we have a certain % of low income families.

Hi, S.:

Read the book by Star Parker: "Uncle Sam's Plantation: How Big
Government Enslaves America's Poor And What We Can Do About It."

In Portsmouth, we have 30% of taxpayers paying for everything.
Doing research in the Department of Health on the number of unmarried women having babies; In the Social Services department on the number of social service programs for these women and children; in the Portsmouth Public School system 68% of students receiving free and reduced lunches; and the refusal of Portsmouth Redevelopment and Housing Authority to give me the demographics of those living in Section 8 and public housing to gain a comprehensive view of how much money the taxpayers are paying for materialism.
Do your own research in your area and you will be amazed.

Go to your city council meetings and review your city's budget.
Good luck.
D.