Depressed Dad Crying and Talking to Daughter About His Sadness

my ex did this a lot with my daughter. she would say she needed moretime with him because he was sad without her or that he wanted us to live together. luckily for M. my ex started getting laid and it all went away! Now he has introduced a new set of problems lately.
I don't think there is much you can do since you cant control him, but maybe make an agreement he gets more nights with her if he agrees to stop doing this?
is there a reason he has such limited time?

If her dad is in counseling I would call the counselor to let him know this is happening. The counselor cannot give you information but you can give him information.

Often depressed people are only aware of their own feelings. Sounds like your ex is this way. He's not able to understand how he is affecting his daughter which causes him to be unable to modify his behavior. I don't know how you can change that.

You're on the right path when thinking of ways to help your daughter understand and cope with the situation. Being able to do that will stand her in good stead for the rest of her life. It might help to have a few sessions with a good child therapist.

I would be hesitant to involve others in a meeting with him unless I knew what their attitude is and what they would say. If talking with the mother has not helped in the past I would not involve her now. If the sister agrees with you and your ex respects her and her opinions that might help. However, I have doubts. He is totally wrapped up in himself and is unable to sympathize or empathize with anyone else.

If he's not on medication he should try that but you can only suggest it. If you do suggest it focus on how it will help him. He is most likely only interested in himself and his pain.

When talking with him focus on empathizing with his pain first and then tell him that by sharing his pain with his daughter is apt to make her depressed too. It is healthy to let his daughter know he's sad but not to share all the reasons and to only do this briefly. For example, daughter notices he's withdrawn. He should say he's feeling sad. But he neednt' go into reasons why. She's heard them once. That's enough. Suggest to him that she remembers and that repeating them only adds to her sadness. It's important to not give a child adult responsibilities. He's responsible for his feelings and needs to protect her from their weight.
Suggest that if he doesn't understand that or is unable to manage his feelings on his own that he talk with a counselor. Would it help for you to offer to help him find one?

After you addition. Three is way too young to be hearing about her Dad's problems. She does not have the maturity to learn coping mechanisms. I agree that it may be time to stop the unsupervised visits.

This post triggered me like no other. I took care of my dad as a child (emotionally) and now I'm a therapist who likes to work with men... doesn't take a whole lot of insight to make the connection...

What is your custody arrangement? Do you have the sort of relationship where you can talk WITH him, not at him (he's probably thinking himself 'the victim" so he needs empathy) face-to-face? Would he be open to research from child psychologists who can explain the difference in emotional maturity of a three year old versus an adult? I would also recommend the book "Contageous Emotion" as well. There is more research being done on parents who are depressed and there is now a school of thought that it does more damage than psychosis and other severe mental illness. I say this not to scare you, but he needs to wake up to what he is doing to his daughter. Just as we don't bring every emotion to work, we have to compartmentalize, we have to do this with our children, as well. Can you appeal to both his intellect and his heart?

As was stated, I would document everything. I would try every avenue available focusing only on concern for your daughter.

You sound like a fantastic mom who is helping her process this out and letting her be a child!

You need to get advice from a child therapist.

This s really not healthy for your daughter. She is taking on his burdens. This could lead to her own depression.

A therapist can then speak with your husband about, over sharing with his child.

Is he in regular therapy? He sounds like he is clinically depressed and needs professional help.

I have a strong assumption that your daughter does not have an MD or PhD. in Psych-that makes Dada's behavior inappropriate and actionable. What exactly are you waiting for-him to hurt himself along with your daughter? He needs to get help-she needs to be with you until he is together enough to parent his child. She is ill equipped to fix him-he needs to get help and get real and be a father-the job that, BTW, never ends. Tell him you no longer feel comfortable with your daughter having unsupervised visits-if he freaks out-go to Family Court and get an emergency hearing. The following should spur you on:
http://www.jaapl.org/content/33/4/496.full

The conversation he is having with your daughter is inappropriate. She's too young and it is negatively impacting her, but his illness is preventing him from realizing that. He should see a therapist so he can appropriately discuss his sadness with someone who is trained to handle his situation. I would mention it to his family and suggest an intervention, as the kind thing to do. Although, you are not responsible for his happiness or lack there of, but because you co-parent, this is an opportunity to offer help. Good luck.

Encourage him to seek treatment for his depression. There is a difference between "I'm having a hard day" and "I miss you so much and I wish I were still with your mom and....." That sort of thing messes up a kid and makes the child feel responsible for the parent's feelings. My SD used to come home in hysterics because of her mom's mind games.

You might also get your DD into counseling so that she learns his sadness is not her fault or burden and that she can love your partner and not be disloyal to her dad. Regardless, you need to protect your child in some way. I'd also talk to her school and tell them what's going on so they can keep an eye out for odd behavior.

Basically he's burdening a child with more than she should bear. If he won't change, then you need to teach her how to cope.

ETA: You may ask her pediatrician about how to find help for small children. They can do play therapy with the very young if it is necessary.

Any time an adult dumps adult emotions onto a child, it is unhealthy.

Unfortunately, too often adults use the claim of "I want them to know it's OK to express emotion" as a way to justify dumping their emotions all over thier kids, who are not ready to handle this.

He has zero idea that a young child is NOT capable of dealing with this. He must be made to see that she will feel she is somehow responsible for him -- that she must "make daddy better." That sets up a pattern that will continue their entire lives together and will cripple her as an older child, teen and adult. It is utterly unhealthy for her but he will not see that because his focus is totally on himself and his feelings, even if he says "I want to make HER feel it's OK to express feelings." He believes that, he really does, but it is not what he's actually doing.

Is he so depressed that if you talk to him -- when she is not around, when you and he can be alone, when there are not other distractions or a pick-up about to take place, etc. -- is he so depressed that a straight-up but compassionate talk from you would not shake him into seeing that he is dumping emotions on her and she is feeling responsible for him? How will he react if you tell him, "She is losing sleep; she says she feels like she has to make you better; she is feeling responsible for you..."??

If that would not shake him, you may need to first see if he is getting professional help (he absolutely should be) and then possibly get advice from a counselor or psychologist who deals with children who have divorced parents. Find someone who has worked with kids who have a depressed parent if you can. You should first get advice for yourself but then consider sending your child to see this person so she gets some professional help dealing with her own emotions over her dad.

He is absolutely damaging her but when people are as depressed as he is, they are often blind to the impact on others, even small kids. I'm so sorry for you.

I agree with Laurie and Marda. This is not healthy or fair for him to make her bear the burden of his depression. It's okay to let your kids know you are sad about things occasionally, but she should not be the sounding-board for his depression. That is for a therapist.

Continually dumping on her is going to cause her to feel guilty and sad. If you can't stop him, you need to make sure she knows that this is not her burden and it is not her fault.

Good luck.

If he brought over a week old bag of smelly slimey garbage and dumped in her room would you put up with it? Aaaaahhhhh no. But emotionally that is what he is doing. He is dumping the stinky garbage of his life all over your daughter. To him his feelings are normal. He is sad and he thinks everyone should be sad or depressed. Happiness is not normal to him.

I think talking to him or any member of his family is going to be a waste of time. If he is like this he learned the behavior from somone and that someone is probably a parent.

I think you need to find a way to force him into counseling and on medication. You may have to go to court for this. You can request a custody study through social services. You can also ask that he not be allowed to see your/his daughter until he does something to heal.

As someone who has suffered depression, and overcome it-- and dealt with a sometimes-depressed parent when I was younger-- there are a few things which I agree are worrying, from what you describe.

Your ex-husband needs to understand that by making his depression present for everyone else to deal with, he's really doing a huge disservice to your daughter. He is putting her in the place of emotionally taking care of him. Perhaps there is more going on for him than just this (mental health-wise, I do not know)... most healthy parents will experience a normal amount of depression in their lives (situational, for instance) but will try to keep a bright face on things for their kids. This isn't exactly being false, even if the kids know mommy or daddy is sad... it's about providing a sense of security that we, as the adults, are 'okay' enough to handle life so that our children do not feel they have to 'handle' it for us.

This is part of being an adult. Our feelings and needs do not come at the expense of others. Especially young others so ill-equipped to deal with the enormity of this.

Is your husband on medication? I ask this because it sounds like he's reveling in it, a bit. (Tweeting? Really?) When I was clinically depressed, I had some bad times, but I wasn't telling everyone hither and yon what a hard time I was having. I kept myself together when teaching preschool, because tears are emotionally upsetting to children. [This is often why we introduce the idea of 'happy tears' when we expect that parents might be emotional, like on the last day of preschool or other significant transitions which children could possibly misinterpret as upsetting.]

My suggestion would be that your ex gets counseling, and that you find a way to get counseling for your daughter. Not because YOU are doing anything wrong, but because your ex is putting WAY more on his daughter than what is healthy and normal. It also may help you in the long run to have these counseling visits documented as you advocate for your little girl, in case your ex continues to become more depressed and still refuses to respect your child's very age-appropriate needs.

Instead of bringing his mom or sibling into this (which you state has not been previously helpful), I would strongly suggest talking to a counselor or mediator with him instead. Do this out of concern for both him and your daughter. His family may very well side with him and enable him to continue down the path of over-sharing that he's chosen in the guise of 'honesty'. Realistically, we all know that when we are being 'honest' with children, we must use adult discernment and good judgment about 'how honest' and what sorts of details we provide. (For example, on Sept 11, when my young charges saw so many of their parents upset, it was a simple statement "Some people died and so many of the grownups are sad about that"....which is far different from "We may be at war and someone flew airplanes into buildings..." I think you know where I'm going with this, right?)

Overall, talking to a professional, in any case, will help you give your daughter some good phrases and 'pat answers' to help your daughter learn exactly what you need her to know: she is not responsible for everyone's emotions. It would be great if your ex-husband would go with you, if only to make a plan about how he can feel honest without overburdening your daughter, and he really may need to both *hear* these concerns from someone else AND be accountable for following up on maintaining good boundaries in regard to the kid world/parents world. Even if he won't go, as I said before, seeking help now will show that there is a perceived problem, that you are seeking guidance and a solution, so that, should his situation worsen and you feel it necessary to revise the custodial arrangement, you have information/documentation in place. (I understand some parents are hesitant regarding children and counselors-- we can always say "we are going to meet a new friend and play a little"... I think how kids perceive things is often due to how we present them. With a play therapist or counselor, there would be toys for the child to play with while they shared their story through play.)

My best wishes for you-- I'm sorry you and your daughter have to go through this. Your ex-husband needs a therapist to talk to about his feelings, even if he needs to go daily-- not a little girl.

With my impending divorce, I finally had that talk with my kids about how we are splitting. They were sad at first but we talked through it and I reassured them that we would both be happier this way. Not true. I'm so sad. But I would never ever show that to my kids. Kids need reassurance and they need stability. I don't use my kids as a crutch, I have girlfriends for those sessions. The kids are happy, no sadness, no need for counseling.... then he texted my son last night and it tottaly confused him because my husband said "Mommy said there was something wrong with you." Luckily my son asked me why I said there was something wrong with him. I was appalled.I told my husband he was sad when he realized what was going on so I had to have the divorce talk with them but it went well and the children are happy. I just had to bite my tongue and smile and say, "Daddy is probably just checking to see if you guys are okay about the divorce, he's just concerned for you because he loves you."

I'm appalled that he would say that he's appropriate for sharing depression with a child but it's alot like how my husband would be. He thinks people should be open and that is "honesty" and to hide it is being "dishonest". The kids don't need counseling but I told them they could talk to one at school or a teacher if they just can't talk to us but we are there for them. I would not put a child in a counseling session because I did it once and it's scary and makes the child feel like there is something seriously wrong with them that you have to seek a shrink. Don't do it unless you really have to. I think parents are too quick for someone else "a professional" to solve the problem when all they need is you.

*******************What I would do********************************
Broach the subject in private with him. He'll get defensive, that's normal no matter what the issue. But just tell him that it's upsetting your daughter and that she is too young to bear the emotional and psychological burden. In time he can teach her to be open about her emotions, let it be when the emotions are hers, not his. All she needs to know is that he loves her very much.

No discussion, no arguments. Just, this are my thoughts. You can do as you will with them. And walk away.

If he's mad, he's mad. You let it out. Hopefully he will still mull over what you said after you are gone and think about whether he is right or wrong. I know I did after my husband voiced his concerns to me. If he still thinks he's right, and you do decide to take her to a counselor, take him with you. Tell him she's very sad and depressed and you don't think child should be this sad. You're seeing a counselor and you'd like him to be there too to support your daughter. The counselor telling him not to do what he does will have a greater impact if your comments didn't work.

She is too young to have to deal with this. Yes, it's ok to recognize that daddy is sad, but the details are too much. I don't know if you have a mediator or someone that helped you with your divorce, but they need to intervene and he needs counseling to deal with this - an adult he can go to for help and not his child. If there is no attorney or mediator that you can go to, and you have a good relationship with his mom or siblings, talk to them about your concerns. His level of depression is worrisome, and if he's having trouble taking care of himself then sadly, I would be worried about his decision making capability when he has his daughter. He needs to get his head on straight for himself AND for her.

It really depends how old she is. I don't see any reason not to be honest about your feelings, but in his case, I think he himself needs to see a psychiatrist and maybe get on meds (if he isn't already). His situation does sound like clinical depression. However, discussing with her how he wishes you were still together and how he doesn't like that you have a partner is NEVER appropriate, as that is solely between you and him as adults.

Hi Emily,

I haven't read the other responses. Just going to go with my reaction to your post. I know you asked for advice on communicating with a depressed co-parent, but it sounds like you've tried talking with him, and he just persists in his self-pity, basically saying, "I'm going to do/say whatever I want to regardless of the effect on my daughter."

Your ex is being utterly inappropriate with your daughter, and that is putting it mildly. He seems unwilling to see her as the toddler she is and is completely putting his needs above hers to her detriment. This is harmful to her now, to her developing sense of self and how she views relationships, and to the woman she will someday become.

He is the one who should be caring for her when she is with him. He is supposed to be the adult because he is the adult. Yet, he is trying to reverse the roles. He is setting her up to be HIS care-taker. It's all about his feelings, his depression, his sadness, his tears, his regret about not being with you. It's all him, all the time.

Where do her needs fit in with him? Her need to feel loved unconditionally by dad, to feel secure, to feel like dad's in charge and will take care of her. At nearly three, her biggest worry in life should revolve around monsters under the bed, not worrying about whether daddy will be okay.

Yes, it's okay for very young children to see parents sad ONCE IN A WHILE. It's part of life and that's how kids learn about feelings. But when dad is in a constant state of depression and starts using his daughter, who's still under three, as his sounding board, then there are red flags waving all over.

In addition to his constant sadness, he is discussing ADULT business with your daughter. Whatever drove you two adults apart should not be of any concern to your little girl. She should only feel that mommy and daddy both love her and will always be there for her no matter what. He should not be lamenting the fact that you're no longer a couple in front of her (that's what therapy is for). He should not be pointing blame at your new partner (sounds like that's what he's saying to her).

Based on what you've said, it doesn't sound like a meeting with his family will be helpful. What you have said, however, is that his seeking treatment was part of your legal agreement. So, my question to you is why have you not pursued this? If you've got legal ground to stand on, take that stand and protect your daughter.

Your ex's behavior, left unchecked, has the potential to do real harm to your daughter. (Read up on children who are raised by chronically depressed parents if you need more convincing).

If it were me, I'd contact my attorney, go back to the judge and get some teeth behind this order. He wants visits? He has to be stable, appropriate, and have his mental health issues under control by working with a qualified mental health professional.

If it were me, I would also want supervised visits until such time that he can demonstrate proper parental behavior to the court.

Sorry there is no magic answer to make him communicate with you. I truly hope he gets the help he so desperately needs.

I wish all of you the best.

J. F.