Defiant 10-Yr Old Boy

Each of my children have gone through a defiant phase. Sometimes my husband & I disagreed on this (he expected them to be good little soldiers) but I followed the advice of a counselor. She advised that for kids to be well adjusted we need to allow them to say no sometimes. Otherwise the 'no' goes underground. They become passive/aggressive & say yes & not follow through on whatever they agree to do. I want my children to learn to say no when appropriate or they would become perfect targets for predators. So I often allowed them to say no or express anger (constructively) but they understood chores still had to be done or there were consequences. The consequences were usually my saying no to their next request. We were uncomfortable because this was very different from the way we were raised but the more we practiced the easier it became. They are now 21, 18 & 16. They are all reasonably helpful & have responsibilities. By the way they all resisted brushing their teeth less than I preferred but have healthy teeth & gums. I let the dentist or hygienist get on them at their monthly orthodontic appointments & cleanings.

Hi S.:

We had similar issues with my boys a couple of years ago. I think we have nipped it for the most part. I instituted a point chart. We aren't a rich family, so each point is worth 10 cents. Everytime I catch them doing something good, or they do a chore that needs to be done everyday, they earn a point. We have two dogs and a cat. One will feed two animals for two points and the other will do the fresh water and feed the third animal for two points. This is every day. They make their bed every morning and I will ask, "Who made their bed and gets a point?" If they haven't yet, they will run up and make their bed. If the teacher calls and reports good behavior that is an automatic 10 points. If they begin to behave badly or don't do what I ask, I begin to count. If my count gets to three then they lose a point. If they have saved a bunch of points, I take them out shopping and ask them to make a goal of what they want. When they begin to lose points, I tell them, "well at this rate it is going to be a while before you get that skateboard." Or, whatever the item is. This works especially well for my boys and has been very successful for the past two years. If someone behaves really badly though, I count to three, they lose a point and they owe me 15 to 30 minutes of quiet reading time at the table. They aren't allowed to do anything but read for that allotted time. Hope that helps.

I have been looking into this same problem with my 11 year old. Refuses to do anything we ask INCLUDING bathing, brushing teeth, and going to bed. Have you read up on ODD? This is what I found when I started searching the web for help. Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) describes my child almost perfectly. Even the procrastination. You might look that up on the web. CEW

There's been tons of good avice here! The book I've found most helpful is "Aaron's Way: Journey of a Strong Willed Child" by Kendra Smiley, and what I loved the most about the book is that her now-adult-son Aaron helped her write it. He gives his perspective on the arguments that went on between them, and tells from the child's perspective what worked and why it worked. I love that book!
Another thing that works for us (I have a ten year old son also) is making sure he has some benefits. Let him shop with you for his own toothpaste, maybe if he chose the flavor he'd use it more. And it would be HIS tube of toothpaste, so that would make it special for him. Also, when I'm getting major attitude from him, I can tell it's time for him to go on a 'date' with either me or my husband, to get some alone time. That makes a very huge difference in his attitude. I think at this age, they want to know that they are seen and valued and important, all that good stuff. He's far more likely to WANT to help me after we've had a long NICE talk, or gone on one of our dates. He'll even walk up and ask what I need help with. (why don't I do the dates more often, now that I think of it?....)

Dear S.,

You are absolutely right when you say that spanking only aggravates the overall defiance. Positive or negative reinforcement has been proven to work better.

Here are a few pointers to address your child's defiance.

First, I would say try not to see your child's behavior as defiance. See it as the necessary growing up behavior. After all, he will be thinking entirely on his own in a few years. Start training him now. There are books or articles out there on raising a defiant child. I read an article several years ago that talked about the positives of a defiant child, for example, they tend to be leaders.

Giving your child some options. Start gradually increasing as the child ages. Does he prefer to do his home work as soon as he gets home from school or wait an hour. That way the child is having the freedom to make some simple decisions. Decision making is a skill. Giving your child some options encourages thinking. Autonomy is a good thing.

Be somewhat flexible; does his favorite TV program come on right after school and he would rather begin his homework after the program?

Build a relationship with your child. This must be in unison with the parenting part. It has been said that Relationship must be involved as much as Rules. In other words, don't have a relationship with your son that is made entirely of rules. Rules without relationship leads to rebellion.

Build his self esteem.

Read books. You can learn how to be a great parent with or without the defiant child :)

Here are a few good books to look over. I really enjoyed the P.E.T. book.

Children: The Challenge by Rudolf Dreikers
Presents no-nonsense advice and techniques for dealing with many misbehaviors using natural and logical consequences.

P.E.T. Parent Effectiveness Training by Thomas Gordon
Addresses issues of family communication, conflict resolution, and raising responsible
children without shame or punishment.

Some other great books to take a look at:

Redirecting Children’s Behavior by Kathryn J. Kvols
Provides many techniques to guide families to become close, cooperative, and respectful. Provides great ways to set limits in positive ways. Helps solve the “mystery” of why children misbehave.

Discipline Without Tears by Rudolf Dreikers
Stresses encouragement, cooperation, and disciplining children lovingly and effectively.

Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka
Very good for “strong willed” children. Provides specific tool to work with “spirited” children.

Guiding Young Children by Eleanor Reynolds
Practical problem solving techniques that exclude the use of punishment, blame, or guilt. Presents techniques for developing listening skills, negotiation, conflict resolution, and setting limits.

Discipline That Works by Thomas Gordon
Provides evidence that punitive discipline and punishment are harmful to children and are ineffective as a means to fostering children’s good behavior. Provides strategies to help children control their own behavior.

Boundary for kids by Townsend and Cloud.

Best Wishes

I have the same problem! My son is 11 yrs old and knows EVERYTHING!! He was always a straight A student and recently started NOT handing in his school work and giving me a hard time about anything and everthing. I have threaten and have gone to the extent of taking his games and even his TV out of his room ~ all he can do is read. We have made going to Borders a treat for him when he does something good. The threaat of taking that privildge away finally broke him. I still stand my ground ~ I have even gone to the extend of upsetting his routine ~ when I wash his clothes and fold them I turned everything inside out ~ his socks and underwear mostly. LOL In the morning when he gets dress ~ he started complaining about how I fold ~ I ignored him at first and then as it kept on happening ~ he finally started to complained MORE about how he HATES to turn these items right side in ~ that's when I explained to him that things are always done a certain way ~ it's hard for change even for me! We agreed that if he would work with me instead of against me that we would get along alot better. So far so good ~ I still don't let him play his games. That ~ he has to earn.

It's hard at this age ~ they can form there own opinions and you have to give them a chance to make some of them on there own. With the brushing of his teeth ~ I took him to the dentist. After we left the office I went to Wal-Mart and let him pick out his OWN toothbrush ~ (battery operated) I told him that he had to brush his teeth TWICE a day. Back in August he fell off his bike and broke his two front teeth ~ he had to endure the ol' root canal ~ I toss that in everyday about how he would have to go through that process AGAIN if he didn't take time for his teeth. You can still see the seam of the cracked teeth but they can't do nothing till he is older. So I always point out that seam and let him know it's noticeable ~ he's been brushing more but I know he hates doing it ~

Good Luck!
R.

My son WAS also very defiant. My husband and I had to sit down and come up with a plan. It seemed the more angry we got and the more we yelled, it seemed to get him more geared up. So we decided that we were going to remain calm even if it meant walking away for a while. We also decided on a plan that if for example, we told him to do something and he said he wasn't going to do it, we would take a privledge away from him (Playstation, IPOD, TV, etc). He was very angry about this initially but when he realized that the more angry he got, the more we took away from him, things got better. We are very consistent with it and he knows what to expect every time now. It has helped our situation a lot.

K.

Sounds to me like you should make an appointment with his doctor.

I have an 11 year old and she never did/does anything like you say. Sure, she has her moments, but she and I can rationalize things and get over humps in our arguements.

From the little you have described, sounds like ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). Trust me, I HATE labels! Have a look at this site.....
http://aacap.org/page.ww?name=Children+with+Oppositional+...

Hi,
I want to say that I have no experience with 10 year olds but I have friends with older boys and I don't think your son needs a label or has something wrong with him. I read a book recently that helped a lot with my 4 year old. It had a lot of advice on older children (more than for younger actually). I have read a lot of books on disipline and I would advise reading this to anyone that feels they have to argue with or bribe their kids to get them to do what they are told. The name of the book is Setting Limits With Your Strong Willed Child(Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm and Respectful Boundaries). Now he understands that his choice is to do what he is told or have a time out. There is no more begging, bribing, yelling or arguing. I'm sure it will take a lot of persistance on your part due to his age but it is worth it. I enjoy my son so much more now that we are not constantly arguing.

Dr. James Dobson has written a wonderful book, "Dare to Discipline", and I believe he has a second book "The strong willed child". Both books are excellent resources. I do not know your religious background but Dr. Dobson heads Focus on the Family which is Christian based.

My best advice is getting the book "Parenting with Love and Logic." It gives you great advice on how to let consequences teach your child rather that you having to constantly be the bad guy. For example, if my kids are goofing around and not ready for the bus, they have to walk 2 blocks extra to get to themselves to the final bus stop. They know that I will NOT drive them to school. Having said that, if we have all overslept or something has happened that is out of their control, I'm happy to help.

This method teaches KIDS to take responsibility for their actions. You tell them what the consequence is for an action (or lack of action) then don't fight, just follow through. It is all about removing the DRAMA that the kids are feeding off of, and replacing it with action. They soon learn that they are in control...their decisions result in an outcome.

The difficult part as a parent is letting go and letting them fail. Regarding brushing his teeth...don't say another word about it. Let him go days without brushing. Sooner or later a friend is going to tell him that he has bad breath, or that there is something gross in his teeth. That will be far more effective than your fighting with him. Worst case, he gets a cavity or two. That will also teach him about oral hygiene.

Here's the Love and Logic website:
www.loveandlogic.com

Good luck!

Something about 10 yr olds! My daughter was the sweetest child, and then she turned 10! I followed Dr.Phil's advice, and I started taking away all her toys, stuffed animals, cds, dvds, webkinz, the whole enchilada. She has to earn them back. She doesn't like it, but, it doesn't stress me out, and she is not suppose to like it. I also have her write 50 times, stuff like I WILL RESPECT AND LISTEN TO MY MOM, or I WILL DO MY HOMEWORK WHEN TOLD TO DO SO, etc... It has been a struggle, but, it is getting better. If you find something that works better, please let me know. There is SOMETHING ABOUT 10 YR OLDS!

Hi S.. Reading your story reminded me of my oldest (almost eleven). We thought we had a couple of years before the teen years started; instead, this started shortly after he turned 10. The chores, arguing, brushing teeth, stressing ME OUT all sound so familiar. I'm writing this not only to sympathize but also to let you know something that has worked recently for us. The best advice I once received was to set rules/consequences with the key point that you always follow with them the same way each time. A spanking would only make my son angry; sending him to his room defeated the purpose (look at all of the stuff kid's have nowdays in there)...what to do. The only way to prove our point is to take away something that he valued. To him television in the evenings was something he looked forward to. When he failed to do a set of tasks that were assigned to him, we took away the television and computer. Yes, he did fight this (for sometimes hours on end), but the key is that we kept replying with the same thing. "You were asked to do a task, you didn't complete that task, and this is the consequence that you were told would happen." It is VERY HARD to do that, but it has worked. One time, after two hours of trying to wear me down, it finally all clicked....he apologized precisely for the thing that he did/did not do and accepted his consequence. That moment made the two hours worth it, although hard won. Please keep with it and know others are there with you cheering you on!!

hi S....i am going through the same thing with my 4 year old. i have no idea what to do. i basically give up because it is not worth the stress and battles as well. he will have really good days and then really bad. at school they say he is totally fine...i have no idea! everyone says he is testing us and i've taken him to a counselor in the past. nothing is working! i know everyone tells me he is four, so he can't run the show, but EVERYTHING you said about your son is the same exact i say about mine. if you figure out any tricks, please share...i am ready to call super nanny! good luck!

I'm new to this mom thing. I have a four year old son and a 6 month old. But I helped raise many boys in our family. It may not be easy taking advice from strangers because what works for other may or may not work for you. From what you are telling me, if you as his mother have to keep fighting with him and he only listens when his dad spanks him. It may be something deeper. He may need connection to his father. The age in which a son seeks only his father is from 6 to 11. He falls in that category. You may want to try to have his dad do those tasks but not with the threat of spanking him but rewarding him. Like hey come on do this real quick for your mom and we can play this together or go here. Hey it may work. It works for my four year old.

Stop spanking! My mom did that to us growing up..it only made us MORE defiant. Talk to his friends moms and see if they have that problem. If not, have that boy for an overnight so when it's bedtime, your son sees the other boy(s) brushing. He'll get the hint that everybody has to brush or all kinds of disgusting things happen in the mouth at night. Your school should have a movie about "mr tooth decay". Find out when they show it and for what ages. p.s. I don't reward a child that age for doing something the world has to do for hygiene sake but the next time he does something good, a little something extra is nice...stay up a half hour longer on a weekend night, etc. By the way, I don't mean to imbarace him, just let him see that all children and adults keep their teeth clean. Good luck.

Maybe you should see a doctor just to rule out any kind of mental problems such as ADHD, ODD or anything else. My 8 yr old son has ADHD and ODD (along with a few other things) and what you were describing sounds a lot like what I go through. If in fact he does have ODD you need to get it taken care of quickly because he's 10, meaning he's getting older fast and it will get worse very soon. Good luck!

You have already gotten lots of advice here, some of it quite good, but there are a few basic points I think should be emphasized.

One, it is not your job to control a child. It is not your job to raise a kid who does the right thing because they are scared of you (that's why spanking may work in the short term but not long-term). It is your job to raise a person who will do right when no one's looking, simply because it's the right thing to do. 10 years is not too young to tell him this. He already knows you cannot control him; let him know that it still has to be done and that it is his job.

Two, though sometimes you may have to take away privileges, yell or whatever, it's not a bad thing to just concede things that don't really matter. Routine, for the most part, does not really matter. There are lots of ways to keep teeth clean besides brushing - just toothpaste on a finger can work, assuming he will do that. Take a good hard look at what he will and won't do, and let the things go that don't matter. Contrary to what you might think, it won't undermine your authority as a parent - he will see that you are not just making rules for the fun of it, because you are not afraid to give up rules that aren't important.

As to the chores, I've never met a child who did not oppose doing chores, so that's not new, though it does sound like your kid is more defiant than most. Assuming you have taken him to a doctor and there is no neurological or psychological problem. One thing you can show him, and it will cost you nothing, is that negativity and defiance will not take over the family. You can just simply refuse to allow yourself to get stressed out. One technique you could try is, if he won't do simple chores, not doing certain things yourself - for example, if he won't help with the table or fixing dinner, get tableware and plates for yourself and spouse but not for him, explaining that in a family everybody works - that's just the way it is. He will get his own tableware and plate if he wants to eat. You do all this in a matter-of-fact way, not angry or judgmental.

You're a parent, but you're a person, too, and you must do something for yourself, so one 10-year-old does not stress you out. He should not be allowed to do it, but you might have to bend to make it happen.

Eventually he will see that everything and everyone works together and that the world does not revolve around him.

1st stop: Diet. We removed sugary cereals, most refined flour and sugary drinks from the diet. In my humble opinion, spanking at 10 is going to create a pretty large store of anger with a ticking time bomb attached to it. This is what worked for us. My now, 20 year old, is a sweet, kind and polite person. No one tack works for everyone, but this worked for us.

My 10 yr son has gone through a defiant stage and will sometimes fall back into this pattern. As parents, we have fallen victim to his defiance if he has been well behaved for a while. We start raising are voicing, arguing, and trying to force him. Once we calm down, we remember the steps we have learned through books, parenting classes, and even talking to doctors. It is always the same--give clear expectations, give choices, be consistent, make it understood that there will be consequences and carry out those consequences. We expect you to brush your teeth each morning. Would you like to do it before or after you get dressed? The dentist stressed the importance of blah, blah, so the days you don't brush your teeth, you will not be allowed any electronics in the evening.

For my children, we had to take away all electronics, including tv, for the evening because taking away video games wasn't working. It was taking away everything that really got there attention.

In all the information we obtained, this was the action recommended whether it was called defiant, power-struggle, ADHD, strong-willed, etc.

It has worked for our children. However, we sometimes have to get back into the habit of instituting the consequences immediately.

Hello, I thought I was the only one going through this. My 10 yr old is also becoming more and more defiant. His father and I divorced when he was 5 and i have been remarried for twpo years to a wonderful man. Essentially I thought he was adjusting to the new man in our lives. But now I am not so sure. I have finally resorted to taking him to a child psychologist. His first appointment is in a month. So I am hoping that we can figure out what is going on. I wish you luck. I wish there was something I could say to offer assistance.

This story sounds like you've been living in my house with my 10 yr old son. He was the most delightful, sweet, respectful, polite child until he turned 4, then suddenly, as if an alien switched them in the middle of the night, I found myself with the most disrespectful, nasty, defiant, challenging child! My husband and I are very consistent, we stand united, we enforce immediate consequences, we remove all priveledges and still we are met with arguments, attitude and willful behavior. Simple tasks that are expected, like brushing his teeth and showering, become a battle. He will argue about everything and has no concerns about punishments. However, when he's with small children, he's fantastic and sweet. He holds doors open for the elderly and is very social. What gives?

Respect is a primary lesson to be learned here. Although my son never acted in quite the way yours does, he did tell me at one point he did not want to do his chores, clean the table, put his clothes away, etc. In a very calm manner,I told him "No problem". I explained that as a family we all do things that we don't really enjoy all the time. I gave him examples of his Dad getting up very early everyday to go to work and the reasons he did; the things that as a mom I did for him everyday to make his life easier, like washing his clothes, making his meals, cleaning his room, taking him to school.,etc. I told him I would be glad to NOT do any of these things for him in turn for him not doing the things he found so boring. After realizing very quickly what he had to lose, he said he thought his chores weren't that big of a deal after all. As for brushing his teeth, his peer group will let him know how that works for them. If asking with "please", not ordering him, doesn't work and he actually does withdraw (ie. not brushing, not bathing, acts of defiance, I would get behavioral counseling soon. Spanking is the ultimate act of aggression to a child; it proves nothing and engenders more defiance and hatred. Kids who feel powerless and disrespected find ways to get power- via attitude, defiance, guns, gangs, etc. I hope you tell your son all the good things he is/does. Recognition and praise go a long way in building self-esteem. Respect begets respect. Also, never argue with him. There is no point.

I am going through the same thing with my 10 yr old daughter. I started to read some books and all the advice I got just told me to hang in there. It is a really hard time for them not kids/not teenagers, they just don't know where the fit in. So everything is a test or battle. Keep enforcing the rules and take away cherished things/activities. I had to take away my daughters afternoon snack, she was being so horrible. They suggested extra sleep and affection at this age too. Regards

Have you ever tried talking to him about his behavior during a car ride (with just you & him)? My 9 year old boy isn't so bad but when he does things like acting like a 3 year old for no apparent reason or just acts out of his character, I find these alone times help us talk things out. He always seems to be receptive to what my job is as a mother and what a horrible mother I would be if I didn't address his issues as a child. I guess, if anything, he might be more sensitive to me being a good mom than to him being a good kid. He also seems to like when I tell him stories about when he was a baby. Sometimes I think they just think their forgotten about because of younger siblings or just the chaos of life in general. Hope this helps

I have two boys myself and what I do is went to a teacher store and purchased on of those large posterboards for attendence. I put my sons name on it and bought small star stickers. When they do anything positive even for something small in the begginging they get a sticker. When the stars go all the way across I give fake dollars that can be added up or turned in for special outings,purchases, time with you or dad, extra awake time etc. Stars can be given even for good attitude, remeber they have to go all the way across to earn money so it takes time. It has worked well. Do not take stars away for incorrect behavior because then they figure why behave it will only get taken away.

K.

Our dentist says it's a rare 10 year old boy who's good about brushing. Coach but don't force. Before too long he'll be worried about bad breath as he enters adolescence, and that will be a motivator. As for the general defiance, I think 10 year old boys can seem old and independent and surly, and we sometimes forget that they are still kids who need lots of hugs and lots of recognition. My son (who was a serious handful at 8 and 9) responds incredibly well positive reinforcement, including "You are so responsible!" and lots of "I love you"s for no reason.

There seems to be something else bothering him. You have other children? He's the oldest? Have you spend some alone time with him to see what his thoughts are? He might miss time without other siblings. When even the simplest things are forced, there seems to be other issues. Though my children are only 6 and 9 open communication and his ability to express himself is essential. He wants independence but needs the discipline. Let him help draw "the line" when is enough enough?? Though I am not an oldest child I see what pressure they have on them. Try to get into his thoughts by doing something he wants to do.

I had to read thru some of your responses for myself before I added my 2cents. I have an 11 yr old that has had many of these same problems (Welcome to Adolescents Mom). I also agree w/ the moms that suggested a 'date' or time alone w/ your son. My hubby and I have tried to do this w/ our boys every so often too and it is to the point where if we haven't done it in a while they actually ask for it! We also sit our 11yr old down and talk to him about what's going on, if something is bothering him at school here at home or what. Taking away those ever loved 'electronic' toys are a good punishment too. Good Luck!!!
p.s. I will be checking back at more responses for my own son I think. I might even try a couple of those books. =)