So I questioned actually posting this but I am concerned about the reaction from the school and how to proceed. Anyway, today I was taking my 4 year old to kindergarten (she will be 5 soon and it is a pre-k class that meets basically the same as the regular K class). it is only her second week and thus far we had not needed to use the cross walk. We really have had no prior communication with the crossing guard except maybe an occasional "good morning" in passing. Anyhoo today we parked across the street from the school and had to use the cross walk. As we walked across the street the crossing guard said to my daughter "give me a hug" and as he was saying this before either of us could say anything he was hugging my daughter. When he let go he said "I love you." The crossing guard is an old man has to be 60+. I was shocked and uncomfortable with this happening. We walked away and I let it digest. I could not get out of my mind how inappropriate this was. I called the school and ask for the principal who was out for the day. There is no vice principal so I asked for whomever was in charge in the principal's absence. I explained what happened and was told "oh that is just Mr. Smith. That's just what he does. You will always see him high fiving the kids and the kids will give him hugs." To which I responded: "High fives I do not have a problem with. If a kid wants to initiate a hug fine. But for him to solicit and practically force a hug from a child, especially one who does not know him is just inappropriate." The woman replied laughing "ok we'll have a talk with him." I was totally given the brush off. My standpoint is that it is not acceptable for any school staff member to solicit a hug from a child and to tell them they love them. There may be circumstance where a child needs to be comforted but that would be few and far between and not always appropriate still. So am I wrong to think this is not ok??? The staff member I spoke with acted like I was the crazy one. I want to speak with the principal tomorrow because I think my call fell on deaf ears and because I do not appreciate being mocked when I brought up a serious concern. If I can't get the principal I am thinking of calling the district. I do not want to blow this out of proportion or accuse this person of something more but I feel this is legit and flat out inappropriate. Moving forward what would you do?
Wow I am so impressed with these responses. This is an absolutely true incident that happened yesterday but I wanted some ideas and support because I may be biased. I purposely left out some things about myself because I wanted to gauge a reasonable person. I work in HR for a worldwide company and I teach classes about harassment and inappropriate behavior to new hires on a monthly basis so this is something I am constantly aware of. In the class one of the main points is that it is not how it is intended (possibly innocent in this case) it is how it is perceived (totally inappropriate). A person in authority (in this case anyone that works in the school) has responsibility to stop inappropriate behavior. (as does the source when he/she realizes they have acted inappropriately or have been directed to change inappropriate behavior, or the target has responsibility to report to someone they can trust, or an observer which would be me and very important in this case as the target is still learning what is ok and what is not.) It comes down to what a reasonable person would consider inappropriate. Also in the state of California a person in authority is personally civilly liable if they do not take action to ensure inappropriate behavior stops. Meaning if it were warranted and escalated to that level that lady who laughed at me a brushed me off could personally be sued.
My mom was a softball coach in a neighboring district for a few year. Not a teacher just a coach and she had coached some of her girls since they were 7 years old. She knew all the families. Some of the girls would need a ride home from practice and realistically she had been on vacation with these families and lived in the same neighborhood. But as a district employee she was not permitted to do so. I was unfortunate but there was a line and it was not to be crossed.
I have had conversations with both my 4 year old and my 7 year old and we talked about when hugging is appropriate and if they do not want to hug someone they do not have to whether they know them or not. I will back them up on their decision. I could tell that my four year old was unsure it what she did was ok. I told her she did absolutely nothing wrong. I am pretty sure she did not want to hug him but she didn't want to be mean so that is something we will be talking more about and working on that not wanting to hug someone is not mean and a personal choice.
I love the idea of printing these responses and the thought has crossed my mind as well. If I need to I absolutely will. I do want the school to have a real opportunity to make this right and if that does not happen it will escalate.
Yup I am not accusing this man of anything more and I understand what the repercussions even and inquiry/investigation can cause. I am not even asking for an investigation. I am asking for education. And while I do believe that most likely this is innocent I was thinking the same things about Jerry Sanduski and the stuff going on at the school in I think it is Monrovia, CA. (several teachers were caught last school year and parents stopped taking their kids to the school because they didn't know who to trust)
I am off to meet with the principal wish me luck. I will update when I return.
ETA: I had a nice chat with the principal. She agreed that perception is important. I stressed that I was not trying to get him in trouble per say but it is for the protection of the kids as well as himself. She also addressed my concerns with being brushed off and that it is not acceptable for me to be uncomfortable with staff this way nor to be mocked for it. She said she would be going out to speak with him immediately at afternoon drop off and we should see her there.
Nope - way out of line in my book. BTW, how can a crossing guard be concentrating on what he should be concentrating on if he's busy hugging the kids???? This is not OK.
Oh yea this totally creeped me out reading this. You're doing the right thing. How is a complete stranger going to tell a child " I love you" like that?
That may be "just the way he is" ...well he needs to keep the way he is to himself then. Thats inappropriate.
I agree, this is unacceptable. I would push this, I also would have told him to his face right then and there that is was not appropriate or acceptable and to remove his hands from my child.
oooooo, yes, i myself have big issues with how 'hands-off' the schools have become but this is really too far in the other direction. i think your perspective is exactly the right one (if the child is familiar with him and initiates it) but soliciting and hug and 'i love you' to a total stranger is wayyyyy over the top.
don't go in guns blazing (you don't want to get labeled the wild-eyed paranoid mama) but do persist and be very firm.
khairete
S.
get on your computer and search for "sex offenders" in your state/county/city. Then search his name.
Call the school board and complain.
Call the police (not 911) and just make an informational report.
As a man, I would have no problem doing the following, but as a woman you might feel differently. "Don't hug my child."
I'm a man, I have kids and gosh golly you know what - I don't volunteer to put myself in contact with hundreds of other people's kids everyday. And I damn well don't hug them.
Somethings wrong. Pay attention to your gut.
Our crossing guard is warm and loving to the kids...without touching them! She wears silly hats, sings little songs, greats kids brightly and tells them all to have a great day. IF your crossing guard wants to keep his job...and I question if he should...he needs to be retrained immediately on appropriate ways to interact with children. You are not overreacting. Unconsented to touching is called battery and is a crime. I would point that out to the school board. Also look up respondeat superior. That should stop the irresponsible secretary from laughing at you. Sure, the guy might be harmless. After all, he interacts with kids all the time in front of parents and dozens of other people and has been doing so for decades without being charged with child molestation, so of course he must, be safe right??? Oh wait, I just described Jerry sandusky.
I would do exactly what you are planning to do - talk with the principal. If you get the same reaction, then you should send him a letter telling him how you feel about it. I think you explained your feelings very well here.
I would say in the letter that if you feel that you need to, you will send a copy to the school district. The principal doesn't want you to do that. He will take you seriously because he doesn't want the superintendant to get involved.
I would hope that you wouldn't have to get that far. There is NO excuse for Mr. Smith to be doing this. It is a really bad idea because it makes kids think that it's normal for school personnel to hug them, and THAT is how kids end up being groomed by a pedophile. In NO way am I saying that Mr. Smith is a pedophile. He is probably just a sweet old man who loves kids. However, he is making a pedophile's job easier, and this needs to stop.
I think that you should tell the principal this, so that he will understand that you aren't calling Mr. Smith a "dirty old man". I think he will understand your worries better if you explain it this way. I ALSO think that a parent has a right to say that they don't want hugs and "I love you's" elicited from their children as a matter of course, no matter WHO it is. Mr. Smith needs to stop this stuff. High five's ONLY.
Good luck,
Dawn
Here in Southern Nevada, the crossing guards are staffed by our police department. Maybe you should first find out who has employed him.
Anyone in that position should have gone through proper training that says, "No touching, period". Age and sweetness should not make the difference.
Does the school have a touching and safety procedure and class in place? I am curious to know what their policy is on this.
Age doesn't matter. Plenty of men older then that are perverts. He crossed a line, and it should not be brushed off. I remember in the Jerry Sandusky trial defense witnesses would say, "that's just Jerry." I would speak with the principle and if he didn't seem concerned, I would go above him.
Something like 1 in 4 children are molested. Can you imagine if a child who has been molested in the past (or current) was forcibly hugged by this guy? That would be terrible for them. I wouldn't trust the man, and his clean record wouldn't matter. Most molesters are never caught. If he's not a pervert, he's still crossing the line. He could still be scaring children who have been molested by someone else. He needs to stop this, don't allow them to brush it off.
Just an added note. I would make sure he is in fact hired by the school/district. Around here, our crossing guards are city employees. You need to make sure you are lodging your complaint to the correct people. I would like to think he is just a kind older gentleman, but regardless, it is inappropriate to ask for hugs. And I wonder how carefully he can watch the intersection and kids with all this high fiving and hugging going on?
Totally inappropriate. And creepy. I would be raising this with the school as you are doing.
Definitely follow up with the principal. If you get brushed off by him/her as well, then yes, follow up with the school board (or city, if the crosswalk guard is a city employee and not a school one).
My "creep" meter went through the roof. One of the reasons being that he did this in front of you. That makes it implicit to your daughter that it is OK with YOU for him to do this. A stranger to her. She may tamp down any weird feelings she has when approached by him in the future (for high 5s? or for anything else?) simply because you gave approval that this stranger is ok to touch her without her permission or yours. He just did that, and nobody said a thing to him. :(
(not fussing at you, I would have been taken aback--and I'm sure lots of mommies would be, which is why it would be an approach someone would use when grooming a young child).
Even if he is totally innocent of any ill intentions, what he is DOING is grooming young kids to accept physical inappropriateness with strangers. Very much not something that should be happening.
Teach/instruct your daughter how to properly 'decline' any further request from the crossing guard. Talking to the school district, not the specific school would be my route, the district hires the crossing guards, not the school (here anyways).
You are not wrong in your feelings or way of thanking, good luck.
I agree with Suz T on this. I am sad about some hands off stuff (sometimes a hug or a hand on the shoulder is warranted), but I am not ok with a stranger initiating anything more than a high five or handshake with my children. I would be careful not to be accusatory, but I would ask that he receive some proper training on what is socially acceptable in today's society, and that isn't it.
I DO teach my children how to be assertive and say no. I also teach them to avoid situations. (Obviously a crossing guard is necessary much of the time, but I'd be standing at the crossing until my son is old enough to walk with some friends and just "be busy" and cross the street. It's not a place for chatting, it's a place that's holding traffic for a moment, and that's all).
As I was reading this I got the worst feeling in my stomach ever. Honestly, that is not okay on any level. I agree that high fives are okay, kids in elementary school are always looking for role models and sometimes older people who can just be chill and be their friends are all they need but... this is just beyond creepy. I don't like how the school handled it either, personally if I was the one in charge I would at least have really listened to you and taken in your concerns. I would go to the school board with this if you end up talking to the principal and they give you the same reaction.
My problem with this is not necessarily this one man (although I do think it's inappropriate for him -- but let's say everyone knows him, that's just how he is, grandfatherly, etc.) But children should not be encouraged to hug strangers and should never be pressured into intimate contact with anyone, even old aunts and uncles that smell funny. He, as a member of the school staff, should participate in the safety education of the children. We have a local candidate for state senate who has been campaigning vigorously and is a school teacher. She approached a group of neighborhood kids playing outside and asked them where they live, what their parents names are, etc. -- all so she could go door to door and talk to the parents. But we were appalled because she should know better -- if you care about kids, you don't put them in positions that any good parent has warned them to run from or tell about.
I would do exactly as you planned and also talk to your daughter that SHE is the one in control of her body and if she does not like someone to touch her she can say NO and step back. Your librarian can probably point you to some fun books to read together on this topic and this video is praised by all:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Safe-Side-Stranger-Safety/dp/B0...
PS: Our crossing guard is an older gentleman too, and he gives big smiles and asks things like "ready for a fun day at school today" but NEVER touches a child. I think in this day and age of sex offender registries and instant news the guard would know better and the school officials would be better trained to take all complaints seriously.
Speak with the principal and tell them how you feel.
Absolutely not okay! Call your school superintendent and talk to them as well. The brush off you got from that lady was unacceptable!
It's great to teach your daughter to be in charge of her own body, but she is only 4 and still needs a parent advocate.
"That's just Mr. Smith, that's just what he does" is a stupid answer. There was a man in our church (he has since died) who LOVED giving hugs on Sunday mornings. It turned out that he had been inappropriately touching women and girls. He was "safe" to a lot of people, after all, how harmful could a hug be????? Apparently very harmful. I wouldn't let him hug me because he creeped me out and he would make little comments on how I didn't like hugs or being nice to people. He tried to manipulate me into hugging him dozens of times by playing the sad old man who just wanted a hug. So, now the stories of hurting women and girls are coming out in droves and all because "sweet old man" wanted some hugs.
Be a squeaky wheel! High fives are okay and hugs are crossing the line! It's as simple as that. It's a safeguard for the man as well as the kids.
He may very well be harmless, but the part that REALLY bothers me is how you were treated with an OBVIOUSLY GENUINE concern. No, this is not acceptable behavior and no you are not crazy.
He may be harmless, but guess what, YOU are her parent and YOU get to decide which adults touch her and which don't.
He may not be harmless.
I do not think you are blowing it out of proportion by calling the principal or the district.
Also, teach your daughter she is allowed to stick up for herself and say no thanks. I know she is young, but it is a valuable tool to learn. Too many people are too afraid to speak up! You obviously are not one of them, and so teach your daughter to be assertive as well!
My mom works with Pre-K and preschoolers and they are only allowed to hug a child if he or she initiates it. If he's hugging kids who come to him or kids he knows well, that's one thing, but a crossing guard should move the kids along, IMO. There's nothing wrong with wanting a crossing guard to be friendly but I would never expect a guard to say they loved my kid on the first day or expect a hug for crossing the street.
Long and short, if it skeeves you out, talk to the principal. The guard can be friendly without being pushy or disconcerting. I'm not even suggesting that he's a pedophile but to be honest a lot of pedophiles are people who are "harmless" or in a position to be trusted by kids. That's one reason teachers have to be careful. So should he. They should take your complaint seriously. Explain how the interaction made you feel. It bothered you so much that you couldn't shake it. Your gut is telling you something.
And do teach your daughter that in general she can decline a hug if she wants. If he insists, then that's a huge red flag. Not to scare her, but you might want to find out how she feels, too. "Honey, yesterday when we walked to school, and the guard hugged you before you could say anything, how did you feel?" It would be helpful to know if she was confused or icked out or what.
We don't want to scare our kids with stranger danger, but sometimes you have to go "this ain't right" for them.
NOT ok at all. I hope you get a better response from the Principarl.
No way. And you should print out this post and all of our responses and show them to the principal. This is totally inappropriate, and the brush-off that you have been given is equally inappropriate.
The crossing guard should not be soliciting hugs. And the "I love you" is beyond creepy. He is probably a harmless old man, but that does not make his actions okay. I'm surprised that other people have not complained about him before. Or did they get the brush off too?
For now, teach your daughter to assertively tell him that she doesn't want a hug. If he persists in trying to hug her, you will probably want to physically intervene. (Can you have a friend get your next street crossing on video?)
I would do the same thing you are doing. This is truly disturbing.
I completely agree with you. You did the right thing. I would have done the same. Most sex offenders are the nicest people you would never expect. Then to say I love you???? That is beyond bizare. I almost wonder if there is something wrong with him. I would def follow up and talk to the principal. You can say look I am not trying to get this man in trouble but I think he should be told not to hug the children. A high 5 is fine but that's it. I once saw a show with sex offenders and one guy was saying how he would touch touch the kids and no one would even notice. You did the right thing. Good luck.
The bottom line here is that you feel uncomfortable with the way the crossing guard acted. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.
But now you know how he is and you can place yourself between him and your daughter. Say, "We prefer High Fives instead of hugs." If he persists, there is nothing wrong with being honest with the man - just be kind about it.
I wouldn't call the district and I would drop it with the school unless he persists after you've told him no.
I agree with you that this was completely inappropriate and I would be complaining also and would be mad as hell if I wasn't taken seriously. The crossing guard should not be touching the students at all, except for the high five thing. Hugs are over the top. Besides, I teach my kid not to dawdle in the street. You don't stop and hug someone in the middle of the street just like you don't stop to tie your shoe in the middle of the street.
I would make a written complaint and if it continues to happen, I would attend a school board meeting and ask that the guard be replaced.
Ya, he doesn't even know your child or you...I would feel weird about it too! He hugged her AND said "I love you" Just weird!!
I don't think you're crazy and I do feel like you were blown off and not taken seriously.
What would I do moving forward? Well like you said, I would say something to the principal....get his feelings and concerns from it. From there I'd probably just make sure (as I'm sure you will) you are with your daughter when crossing at all times. I would also not be afraid to say something directly to him. I'd also have a talk with my child that they at no time should feel obligated hugging someone they are not comfortable with them.
I would pursue it with the district. It doesn't matter if that is just Mr. Smith. If he is asking for hugs and saying I love you to little kids to satisfy his emotional and physical needs thats wrong. The district needs to know ....Sorry you are in this position!
The person you talked to was probably either the school's secretary or another teacher who was left in charge for the day in the principal's absence. They were wrong for brushing you off, while he's probably harmless...it's still inappropriate behavior especially at a school.
Talk with the school's principal, I'm guessing he/she will take it more seriously and speak to the guard about it...if they have half a brain that is.
First, you are not wrong to think this is not ok! I would bet the person you spoke to isn't going to say a darn thing to anyone other than to make you look like a loony tune!! I would definitely be contacting the principal or someone above them and I would also say something about this woman's attitude. She should have taken your concerns more seriously whether she agreed with you or not.
Then, if this were my child, I would have a talk with her and explain that she does not have to hug someone if she doesn't want to. When my kids were little, they HATED hugging their grandfather (my father-in-law) - other family members, including my husband, would try to force them to hug him and I would step in and get them out of the situation. I told them they did NOT have to hug him (or anyone) if they didn't want to. My husband tried to tell me it was disrespectful if they didn't hug him to which I would reply BULLS*#^!!!!!
If the principal doesn't do something then definitely go over his head. I used to work with little ones at school all the time and I was very careful, almost to the point of being paranoid, about touching any children. If they ran to give me hugs, and they always did, that was ok; but I NEVER initiated hugs. This guy's actions may, or may not, be totally innocent but if your child or you are uncomfortable then he has definitely crossed a line!!!
And if he's a crossing guard how the heck does he have time to hug all the kids! I would think that gets a little crazy!! Also, how did your daughter react?
You're being a good mom!! Good luck!!!
ussually I think people way over react to sittuations but honestly that is how creeps do find kids. A high five or pat on the back or lolli pop our crossing guards gave us daily. They would talk as we walked across the street and genuinely know us throughout the years but nevr once did one solicit hugs from kids and say I love you.
This may be a harmless old guy BUT the kids shouldnt learn that its acceptable to hug strangers regardless of gender
Well, since the crossing guards are usually old people who are just doing this to have something to do I can see how this would be accepted. They are not in the classroom with anyone and not in any way somewhere private with them. They are out in the open and can be seen by everyone.
I think your feelings are of course your own but I don't see a problem with it myself. They have to investigate them just like a teacher I imagine. If he had any child molesting going on he'd likely been caught by now.
no0 your absolutley right.. its creepy.. as you said its great that the kids like him and high5 him, thats actually cute.. if some kids want to give him a hug thats fine.. but for him to just walk up and say give me a hug and just grab the kid.. thats seriously weird. if i were you id say something to this man.. if he says again to your daughter give me a hug id say Absolutley not!! u want a high five? fine. ..id try not to like yell at him but id let him know how innappropriate you think his behavior is.. if it continually happens and doesnt change then id go in and see the principal face to face... im honestly surprised that no other parents have found this behavior strange and said anything
