Common Core Math and Hungry Teacher

I absolutely HATE the way they teach math these days. They do have algebraic and geometric questions and you're right, the students are still struggling to memorize basic math facts.

I was so happy at my parent/teacher conference this year to have the teacher tell me that SHE struggles with the math. She told me that she has some students with strong math skills and she actually leta THEM teach because they understand it and can communicate it better than she can.

How do you know that the advanced assignments are considered high school math? Does the material actually say that? Just curious.

This is a link to the standards that your state has adopted. If the content that she's getting now falls within the standard for grade 6, then it's not really "high school" content. If what she is getting falls outside of the grade 6 standards, it sounds like this is worth questioning the school's curriculum director about.

http://static.pdesas.org/content/documents/PACCSS%20Mathe...

To answer your question..."high school math" where I am is very purely delineated - Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Trig/Pre-Calc, Calculus, and sometimes Algebra III, statistics or economics. Many concepts from these subject areas are introduced in the lower grades in the Everyday Math curriculum that our district uses from K - 6. So my 4th grader is studying some geometry and they have been introduced to variables, etc. My oldest are in high school and at no point were they given work that exceeded what they have been taught unless it was a deliberate "stretch" assignment where the goal was for the kids to try to apply what they had already learned to figuring out a new concept (like after learning how to get the area of a circle, being asked to find the area of a cylinder without being taught to multiply the area times the height).

ETA after your SWH. High school math, even under "core curriculum" standards, is still taught as discrete subjects. Of course there is overlap in skills - you have to know basic algebra before solving geometry problems - but for college admissions purposes, transcripts have to separate math out into standard subjects like Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II, etc. In the younger grades, these concepts are taught all together.

Anyway...it sounds like the real issue is that your child is in the wrong math group. A reading score shouldn't have anything to do with math placement as they are two totally different subject areas. Why a school would equate math and reading skills is beyond me. Even in my little Catholic school 30 years ago, being in the advanced reading group didn't automatically also put you in the advanced math group. That just makes no sense, so I would question that.

I would also argue that the teacher is missing the whole point of the hungry teacher assignments. I read the website and it sounds wonderful, but not if you're giving the assignments as homework and not if the kids are being penalized for them. They sound like a great adjunct to the standard curriculum, not a replacement for teaching content.

And FWIW, common core is a set of standards, it's not a curriculum. I'm not criticizing you for this, but it drives me crazy when school districts and teachers say things like "well common core makes us do..." "or common core means..." when that's total BS. Common Core is a common set of standards - how school districts adapt their curricula to help make sure that they cover those standards is up to the districts.

What's the goal for the advanced work? I remember one time we had a similar situation but not with core curriculum and all they wanted was for our son to try to do what he could and not worry about the rest. It was more about challenging his curiosity. He only got counted off if he didn't try. We have also had our kids given assessments where the kids themselves were told, "We don't expect you to pass with flying colors because you won't have been introduced to some of this yet. We just want to see where you are and what each of you know."

If that's not the case then the school or teacher is in the wrong, regardless of the curriculum.

Depending upon the actual curriculum the school has chosen, yes, this is typical of what's going on in our school district as well. Last year, my girls' elementary school adopted Singapore Math as the preferred curriculum. In my opinion, it was horrible. It might be okay if the kids had started learning this way in Kindergarten, but to spring this method on kids starting pre-Algebra is a recipe for disaster. What I noticed was that multiple methods would be introduced to the kids, but the teacher wouldn't actually fully explain any of the methods (probably because there isn't enough time in a math lesson to fully incorporate 6 ways to solve a problem). Then she would send a worksheet home with the kids with the directive to solve each of, say, 20 problems using the 6 methods for EACH problem. However, the problem we ran into was that my daughter didn't understand ANY of the 6 methods, so solving each of 20 problems in 6 ways apiece was frustrating and impossible. I'm strong in math, and I couldn't understand some of the ways they were trying to get the kids to solve the problems. So we would struggle through it, and I'd tell her to ask her teacher to show these various methods again in the class the next day. But the next day, the teacher would tell the kids that they would "spiral back" to that subject some other time, and would move on to a new topic. I can't tell you how frustrated the "new math" made me, mostly because it is SO ineffective. The final straw came when I had a conference with the teacher about it, and she said to me, "Well, it's okay, because your daughter is really strong in Language Arts. Not everyone is good in math." WHAT?! Ugh.

Long story short, we are homeschooling this year. I've gone back to a traditional method of teaching math (i.e. learn how to solve the problem in one way until you know it backward and forward, and only then, move on to the next topic). I feel so sorry for my daughter's former classmates, who are stuck with Singapore Math again this year. :(

Anyway, what I would do is to abandon whatever squirrely methods the teacher is trying to teach your child, and just teach her the "standard" way to solve the problem. She will be better off for it.

ETA: Okay, I just read your example problems, and I will say that this is the math my daughter (an 11 year old 6th grader) is doing. However, having her do that many problems as homework is insane. I would suggest that you speak with the teacher and agree that your daughter will work conscientiously for one hour on her math each night, at which point you will stop her and sign the homework page (or some similar agreement). My daughter is getting much stronger in math, but even she would not be able to do that much work, nor would I consider it productive to do so.

ADDED: After your SWH addition - Wow, so they group kids based on advanced READING to also have advanced math?! That is nuts, frankly, and a sure-fire recipe for frustrated kids. If that is the system I am thrilled we don't have it. It makes zero sense to assume that 12th grade reading level equates to high-school math aptitude. I'd fight that hard now in hopes it could change in future years or kids will be deeply frustrated (and their grades will tank unnecessarily). I'm so sorry.

Original: I would absolutely talk with the teacher about the curriculum and expectations. And if you feel your daughter might have been perhaps placed in a wrong math "group" based on earlier testing, for instance, now is the time to get her reassigned. I don't know your state of residence or this curriculum but I wonder if the school automatically placed her in a math class or group within a class that is too advanced, based on her doing well on some standardized assessment? If that's a possibility, maybe she was placed and you weren't even told about it.

It sounds like a curriculum that is assuming kids either already know or will simply pick up some concepts that they are not being taught in class and were not taught last year. Big assumption. I would definitely have a meeting -- be sure that (1) your daughter is not present and (2) you do it at a time and in a place where the teacher will not be distracted by having other things pressing on her time. Tell her you need 30 minutes, not a 10-minute quick chat in the doorway. She may actually be able to set your mind at ease about all this.

However...my seventh grader who is doing algebra this year does not get a grade on whether her homework is right or wrong, just on whether she completes all of it each day. The idea is that homework is where you make your mistakes so you can learn. It's disheartening that your child is being asked to do high-level math and then marked down on the content.

I think you should talk to the teacher. It doesn't make sense to give kids work that is way above their skill level, and I don't understand why your daughter's teacher is giving her advanced busywork that she apparently isn't even bothering to teach her in class.

If you are strong in math and it's hard for you, then your daughter's teacher should not be giving it to 6th graders. She sounds like not a very good teacher, to me.

If this kind of teaching keeps up, your daughter will become discouraged and learn to hate math.

Stuff should be taught in the classroom -- your daughter's teacher shouldn't be sending her home with assignments that she hasn't been properly prepared for.

I'm thinking it's a failing of the teacher.

I teach AP English, but I knew I had heard of The Hungry Teacher math lesson plans before from a colleague. I went digging and found this website:

http://hungryteacher.com/

It may not answer your questions, but it might help you to determine if the work your daughter is being assigned is for her level or not. I hope this helps.

ADDED: I'm with you, V.S. on the peculiarity of putting "paper" in that problem. But unless the writer deigned to inform you of the measurements for a "standard" piece of paper, how would the student know what's standard? Just to be safe, you might multiply each PSI calculated by the area of an 8.5x11 page (102 square inches), the most "standard" size for paper in this country.

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You might find this information about homework, by noted educator Alfie Kohn, to be helpful. He believes too much homework is being given to children who are too young to benefit from it, and that parents must advocate for their children to change this trend: www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/homework.htm

The math does sound challenging, and for the average 6th grader, this would like being thrown into the deep end if they haven't been prepared. I was good in math, but am not sure I would have been able to do these problems in 6th grade without a great deal of frustration. And intense frustration on a daily basis is sure to turn off whatever love of learning a student might possess.

For what it's worth, when calculating psi, pounds PER SQUARE INCH, you need only figure the pressure on any square inch at the bottom of the water (but you will have to convert the depth from meters to feet). I suspect that the "paper" would be lying flat on the very bottom, so would be under the full pressure of water for that depth. If that's NOT what the problem is after, then it's poorly written and confusing (even my curriculum-writer husband finds it an odd way to phrase a problem). The size of the piece of paper, or sand, or whatever else is on the bottom, doesn't matter. You're calculating for only one square inch at that depth (in feet), period.

You need to speak with the teacher, either by phone or email. There may be some confusion in the point system. I serious doubt your daughter is going to lose points for concepts she hasn't even been taught yet.
Whenever an assignment felt like "too much" for my child I spoke with the teacher, and she would either say to do "what she could" or the assignment would be altered in some way.
Talk with her teacher first and go from there.

I agree with the two responses you have so far (prior to me responding). But I will add that I noticed that in 6th grade for both my son and daughter (4 years ago and last year.. so sort of before the common core)... that many of the math problems were very poorly worded, such that, even I couldn't tell what the correct solution was supposed to be. I am pretty good at math. But these were word problems and it just was not clear at all what the actual question was.
It was frustrating to my children, and to me. It seems a bit better in 7th grade for some reason.

I would meet with the teacher. We are not there yet (common core was not used when the sks were younger) but the way it works for my DD in reading is that she has to get to x level before the end of the year. Anything else beyond that is bonus. So if your child is being assigned HS level work and is unable to complete it and it counts for a grade, there is a problem here.

I am not strong in math and even though my sks are, there were still times when the particular class required tutoring (usually a group of students and a teacher or parent) or other help. I would find out what the disconnect is. Sometimes it is the material, sometimes the assignment, sometimes the teacher. My SS took a non-AP Calc class on purpose...but the same teacher taught both courses and was too lazy to make a non-AP version. If this teacher also teaches advanced students, could he or she be doing the same? You won't know til you have a meeting. And if other parents have similar concerns, you should all ask the school about it.

My understanding is that they want more than the memorization skills we used. They want deeper thinking. The problem comes when nobody understands the question anymore. If she is struggling, the teacher needs to know.

And FWIW, I was always advanced in other subjects, and even did well in an advanced Chemistry class. But Algebra knocked me on my butt. I had to get tutoring and did not take Honors or AP anything in math. It sounds like she might be the same way.