Autism and Vaccinations - Dallas,TX

Yes. I know a few children who were never vaccinated, and who are on the spectrum.

I know many, many, many children who have been vaccinated (including my own) who are not on the spectrum.

Cheryl O is so right... The dr who started that whole thing admitted last year that it wasnt true. That being said, I have a friend who has 3 kids. She had her oldest vaccinated,( and he had no issues what so ever) than decided that she wasnt going to vaccinate anymore, so with her middle son she did not get him vaccinated. Her middle son is autistic. Her oldest son is not. After her middle son was diagnosed as being autistic she realized that the vaccines had nothing to do with his autisim & ended up having him vaccinated as well as her 3rd child ( who is also not autistic)

Hi KR

It might be simpler if you re-post and don't give any of the background. Just ask:

A) Do you personally know any kids who were NOT vaccinated and HAVE autism.

AND

B) Do you personally know any families with multiple kids who vaccinated some kids but not others... where some of the kids have autism (and which ones - vax or not)?

If you leave out the background and just ask simple questions that might eliminate the info about the hoax and/or people leaving info about the merits for or against vaccines and just give you the actual answer.

As far as me personally. I don't know ANY kids who have autism and EVERYONE (except one family with 2 kids) I know has vaccinated their kids. The family I know that does not vaccinate their kids - the kids do NOT have autism, but the older girl has pretty severe allergies which factored into supporting the no-vaccination decision rather than just a delay or spacing the vaccines.

Hope that helps.

There were a couple vax + autism studies. The first were laughed out of the scientific community for the follow reason ALONE:

The (very small) study included a school for autistic kids in it's base.

Why this is important is this: If you want to find out how many christians live in the US, you don't go poll people at catholic churches. If you do, you'll get the result that 100% of American's are christian. Not only that, they're all catholic!!! Now, if the study had been done at 5 christian denomination churches (catholic, LDS, Baptist, etc.), 1 synagogue, 1 mosque... the results would STILL be wrong. In order to actually find out an answer, one has to do *significant* RANDOM sampling of the population. Meaning, even if they did a good random sampling of LOUSIANA, the results would only be pertinant to LOUSIANA.

The study that got laughed out of the peer review process had over 1/5th of it's subjects as autistic children (from the school for children with autism). TOTALLY skewed the results. If that study had polled a school for gifted kids the "results" would have been that vaccines "cause" or "trigger" giftedness. <rolls eyes>

The SECOND problem (and the problem with the article you read) is that we used to be at over 95% vaccinated in this country. Meaning, practically, that EVERYONE was vaccinated (practically, not technically). 10 years ago, you couldn't FIND (without looking in certain religious communities and certain other communities) a child who *hadn't* been vax'd. It's like trying to say that Diapers cause autism. Because... guess what? All, or nearly all autistic children used diapers!!! Or toothpaste. Or carseats. Or ate food stored in glass jars. When you pick a "thing" that EVERYONE -or close enough- does, you automatically know that the relationship is not causal.

That IN AND OF ITSELF proves that vaccines DO NOT cause autism... or 95% of the american population would be autistic.

Now... what more serious studies were looking at is "Is it possible that a component in the vaccines triggers a 'dormant' gene that triggers autism in people who carry that gene?

It's a very difficult thing / very simple thing to 'prove'. It's difficult because we do not currently have the technology to do it (aka find the gene and expose it to the components in vaccines). As is FINALLY, THANK GOD now known in the public the so called studies that followed (that were ALSO laughed out of the scientific peer review process for various equally "Are you stupid?" reasons as the first study) completely and fraudulently based. It's been known in the scientific field that the link was bogus for more than 10 years. TEN FREAKIN' YEARS.

The purpose of well done studies is to ask/ look at *exactly* the question you're asking. Reporters "try" to do it sometimes and it always makes me roll my eyes. Yes. ANYONE can find 2 families with "results" that prove a hypothesis. What one has to do to prove correlation or CAUSE, is to look at several hundred thousand families. Studies in medical testing start out small (a few hundred), then move on to a few thousand. Then tens of thousands. The hundreds of thousands. These are HUGELY expensive, and you DO NOT find the BEST studies being done in this country. The best studies are done in socialized med countries. A "big" study here in the US follows 10,000 people over 3-5 years. (Most studies in the US follow 1000 or less over less than a year). A big study in Sweden, however, will have a quarter of a million people over 30 years. Now, one can't use Swedish studies as the "final word" because the ethnic distribution is Sweden is different than the ethnic distribution the Angola, America, Argentina... but one can get a MUCH better idea as to what is really going on with human reaction in general by looking at a study with 250,000,000 people in it than 700.

((BTW... socialized med countries don't require people come in for testing, their medical records are numbered for anonymity and the DATA is collected. For example ####-###-####, vax'd, autistic. It of northern european and african/Caribbean descent. Comes from a family with 4 neurotypical children, 1 autistic, 1 dyslexic. #40581700398, vax'd, neurotypical. Is of northern eurppean and african/Caribbean descent. Comes from a family of 4 neurotypical children, 1 autistic, 1 dyslexic. PLUS all the other med stats related to both brothers. Blood sugar levels, hospitalizations, etc. The studies work with medical information already collected, and then follows the individuals over the course of the study.))

People VERY BADLY want to cure autism. Especially regressive autism. Over the next 10 years you will hear many, many, many things trying to be 'linked' to autism (toothpaste, carseats, socks, wheat, you name something everyone does, and it will be on the list).

But it is absolutely pointless to take any stock in a badly done study. Or have you heard? Everyone in America is Christian!!! Because I just asked at the catholic church down the road. AMAZING.

this has been disproved...the doctor who started that - created a HUGE monster....

I can't answer that question about kids with autism that did not get vaxed but I can say that I have two perfectly healthy children (thank God!). Both have received all their vaccinations on schedule.

I have three daughters. My middle daughter has Autism. She showed signs of Autism as a newborn and before she ever had a single vaccination. She had a delayed vaccine schedule because we knew right away she had sensory issues, she had a heart murmur, and some other issues. I had a difficult delivery with her. No interventions except for monitoring because she was born really early, and thank goodness because there ended up being heart rate, blood pressure, and oxygen problems for both of us. Those things during labor are actually associated with people with Autism. She's immuno-compromised so yes, she does get vaccines. It would be irresponsible not to.

Former doctor Andrew Wakefield's "research" was proven to be a worldwide hoax and was not actually research but was all 100% faked. There is scientific evidence from independent sources ie. not pharmaceutical companies to back this evidence up.

My youngest brother is, we believe, undiagnosed adult Asperger's Disorder and he concurs with that. He's higher functioning than my daughter but they're very, very similar. He's getting worse with age at coping, though. He showed signs at birth. He needed early intervention at school.

My mother shows many signs of being high functioning autistic as well. I believe her oldest brother may also be high functioning autistic too. My mother had all of us (me and my brothers) on a delayed vaccine schedule because that's just how she was.

Most parents I meet with children with Autism knew their children had something different at birth. Most had a delayed vaccination schedule. Some have never had vaccinations at all due to other health issues and some come from non-vaccinating families. Some non-vaccinating families, who breastfed all of their kids, have multiple children with Autism. Many families have more than one child with Autism. A very close friend of mine has two sons, both of whom are on the spectrum. It's not unusual for siblings to have Autism.

But every case is different. Every child is different. I believe very strongly that the main component is genetics with environmental triggers that can worsen the symptoms or make them more noticeable or bring them to the forefront. Sometimes traumatic events can trigger the symptoms that didn't appear to be there before, or may have been there but were so mild as to not notice.

Brain structure is very important. There's so much more to this, so much research, and the focus really has to be on the brain and how Autism works in order to figure out "how" it occurs.

HI KR,

My thoughts on the subject are that autism has increased exponentially with the imergence of synthetic chemicals into our lives. We are absolutely surrounded by them. The last 50 or so years have been all about the convenience of new cleaning supplies, makeups, bath and body products and yes, vaccines. I don't vaccinate for several reasons but the main one is the synthetic chemicals in the vaccines. I am not a hypocrite. I also don't bath in synthetic chemicals. I avoid eating synthetic chemicals as well. I believe what most think of as a "predisposition" is the toxicity that the child has already been exposed to, built up in their system and overwhelmed with. The new vaccines are simply the straw that broke the camel's back....

Hope this helps!

M.

My cousin has a son with Asperger's, which is on the autism spectrum. She did not have him vaccinated precisely because she had heard about vaccines possibly causing a problem - and then her son was diagnosed with Asperger's relatively early on (like 18 months - 24 months, it was clear from the start that he had some problems - would never make eye contact as a baby, etc). So, once he was diagnosed, she went ahead and vaccinated him because obviously NOT vaccinating him had not helped! No sense in having a kid with Asperger's AND polio, or whatever. The vaccinations had no ill effects on his health or his Asperger's. (BTW, he is totally mainstreamed in school now, and is going into 5th grade this year, has lots of friends, and still goes to OT every week to work on social cues, etc.)

Anyhow, so then my cousin had another child, a girl, and she had her vaccinated on the normal schedule for everything. The little girl is now 5 and has never exhibited any signs of Autism or any other related disorders.

So in our experience as a family (and according to all credible studies I have read, as well as fact-based evidence), I do not think vaccinations and autism are related.

I know at least 3 families with children that have autism. They didn't do ANY vaccinations.

I am not going to say the my son's vaccinations caused all of my son's issues, but after the MMR at 3 things spiraled out of control during the 3 weeks after that shot. It has taken over 2 years of intense therapy for him to get back to the place where we were before the shot. My view alone is that there is something in the shot that "triggers" this is a small (growing) percentage of kids. What it is...I'm don't know and am not qualified to say.

My kids were vaxxed and are both on the spectrum (Aspergers and high-functioning autism). I know kids who were not vaxxed and are on the spectrum. I've never been on the "vaccines cause autism" bandwagon. What I do think causes autism, though, is something people rarely talk about because no one wants to think their food is poisoning them: genetically modified crops (aka GM, GE, or GMO) chemical fertilizers, pesticides, artificial colors, and BPA (Bisphenol A, found mostly in canned food linings). I really wish more people were interested in learning about this stuff. If anyone's interested, please check out the Millions Against Monsanto group on Facebook.

An acquaintance of mine has an 8yo boy with severe autism, in spite of her not having him vaccinated. She also has an older daughter without autism. I'm not sure, but I think she vaccinated her, because the supposed link was not well-publicized yet when her daughter was a baby.

There are also two kids in another family I know who have Asperger's Syndrome. The mother was adamant about not allowing them to be vaccinated.

These are the only kids whose histories I know personally. But I know many dozens of kids who are completely normal, and have more than likely had all their vaccines on schedule, including my daughter and her 5.5yo son.

I do know a child that is NOT vaccinated and does have autism. The children I worked with in special education that claimed the vaccines caused their autism did make huge strides with detoxing and therapy. My pediatrician wrote "How the Chiropractor Saved My Life" (it covers more than the title suggest) and she has several case studies that show how she has been in practice and had NO new diagnoses of AU for any of her clients and how a few with AU no longer present the symptoms once under her care. She is amazing and by knowing that I do think vaccines can cause tons of issues (yes my children are vaccinated too) but we have been SUPER cautious and she has guided us in our pursuit of finding a middle ground on this topic........

The link between vaccines and autism has been shown to be a hoax, and the "Dr." who started the fear has had his license removed (research Dr. Wakefield). Some peds are even now refusing to see kids who are not vaccinated in order to protect their other patients.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/pediatricians-tu...

There is a lot of info out there about this issue. I personally believe in vaccinating my children bc the fact is if we do not vaccinate then these terrible diseases that take children's lives will come back in force. The original scientific research that showed a link between vaccinations and autism was proven to be major fraud last year. If you google it you can read all about it I am sure. Here is one link: http://healthland.time.com/2011/01/06/study-linking-vacci...

According to my OB the state with the highest number of autistic children is WA state. This is also the same state that got RID of the mercury in shots about 10 years before everyone else. So, why does WA state have such a high number of autistic children?

There are numerous research studies showing there is zero correlation between vax and autism. As a matter of fact, there is anti-correlation between the vax with the mercury and autism. If you're not interested in the medical debate, I'm not sure what you're trying to find out. It sounds like you're trying to figure out if there is a correlation. I agree, it would be interesting to see the autism numbers on folks who didn't vaccinate, though. The number of folks who don't vaccinate at all, though, is probably pretty darn small, and it might be difficult to find a statistically significant population to study.

And it is virtually impossible to prove something _doesn't_ exist. Try to prove Santa doesn't exist. Or God for that matter. You can't do it.

No one still knows why autism, in any part of the spectrum, occurs. Studies have shown that it is a multifactorial disease, where there is an important genetic component, that can be made worse or triggered by environmental factors. I met a family who had 5 kids. The mom's nephew had been diagnosed early on with autism, so they decided not to vaccinate any of their kids. Their eldest, a 4 year old, was diagnosed with autism, so they decided to go ahead and vaccinate all of them, since clearly it was not related to vaccines, and they didn't want their kids, ranging from 4-15 months, to get exposed to other serious diseases. Time and more research will tell, I hope. For now all that can be done is early diagnosis and very importantly, early intervention.

Loved your question. Don't you wish that we had some studies on these very questions? They have also proven in a court that if some children have a certain condition, the vaccinations can render autism. But, oh, would I love to see studies on your questions. Because one case, one doctor, one family who has autism when they didn't do vaccinations, doesn't answer the questions we have, does it? It does stir thought and that's a good thing.

"Autism" as we know it has been around since before vaccines... but it's been under many names and guises. As we understand more about it, we keep broadening the ever growing horizon of what is considered autistic.

There are more vaccinated children WITHOUT autism than their are cases of supposed autism after vaccinations.

These children with autism have a kinked or full of mutations DNA. They are pre-disposed to it and ANYTHING can be a trigger. A virus (which is well known to be triggers for many un-connected issues with the human body), environmental pollution, something the Mother did or did not do during pregnancy... maybe even using formula over breastfeeding. Could be ANYTHING that triggers each individual with the weaker DNA.

I hear complaints about the horrible chemicals and stuff in the actual vaccines... but formula has a lot of known harsh chemicals, synthetic compounds and even some carcinogenic materials. Pregnant women have been found having toxic levels of many different common chemicals in their systems thru pollution, cleaning chemicals, etc.

For people who do not get offended by off color language (swearing) check out Penn and Teller B&*lsh*t they did an episode on vaccine and autism and all that. My husband was watching it and I said that all soon to be parents should watch it. It was informative and funny.

Thank you for your questions, because I, too, have thought the same things as this debate over vaccinations causing autism rages on. What you've essentially pointed out is that the "research" is flawed because it doesn't include these other scenarios you mentioned. I do not believe that the vaccinations, in and of themselves, causes autism. I firmly believe that there is a predisposition at the genetic level that is triggered by external factors . . . and maybe the vaccination is the trigger or maybe it's something else. There are so many toxins we are exposed to these days . . . even if you religiously use organic products and foods you can't completely avoid the toxins found in our air, in our water, etc. And these, too, may contribute to the genetic predisposition. I have 3 daughters, fully vaccinated on schedule, and healthy as can be.

Just wanted to say I appreciate you asking the question and everyone who answered. Very interesting reading!

I have done lots of research on this after my first born has displayed signs of ADHD. With my youngest son, I delayed vaccinations and stopped them all together before he was finished and opted out.

Just by looking at these simple statistical graphs on the link below, one can gather their own conclusions on whether vaccines actually help stop the diseases they are supposed to prevent (there is little evidence that they help and in some cases cause more problems, like autism for example):

http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/documents/vaccines/Immu...

I'm sorry your family has been impacted in such a way... I would be looking for answers too. In any research that you do, always look at who gains by the research, who is paying for it and who the doctors that do the research get paid from (mostly pharmaceutical companies) so you must take that into account. There are very few unbiased studies that have been done in the autism causal relationship with vaccines (and you have to ask yourself why that is...) There are a few studies out there that show a relationship, but they are always vehemently attacked. Studies with the Amish have shown promise, but even they are vaccinating now, so the data is skew, but still their rates are waaaaay lower than the average US population.

There is also another theory and study been done that may link problems with vaccines and their use of aborted fetus DNA, used in most all of the vaccines, a dirty little secret none of the pharmaceutical companies want you to know about: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/0...

Best wishes for you and your family!

This is my original response that I sent to a post regarding vaccinations/autism:

my neighbor 2 doors down has a 12 yr old child with autism......she swore it was because of the vaccinations so she didn't vaccinate her other 2 boys......one ended up with autism too.........so she has 3 boys only one was vaccinated but she has 2 boys with autism......guess her theory was debunked just like the Dr who came up with that theory.

i have vaccinated all 4 of my kids & all are very healthy, it's not a question to me, it's the right thing to do.

I believe the less chemicals we ingest, the healthier we all would be. THAT'S the big difference in today and 100 years ago. As for the vaccines, we chose not to begin the shots until our children were over 2 yrs old (did not have to deal with daycare), and also stretched the shots out so that if there was an allergic reaction, we'd know exactly which shot was the cause. We had a close friend whose daughter was brain damaged by the DPT. They kept giving her the boosters even after she began having seizures. She was 5 before they found out what had caused it. By then she was completely and totally vegetative. She lived 20 years due to excellent care by her mother, but she never spoke, walked or recognized anyone. It was because of that, we chose to delay vaccines. I do believe some children are predisposed, but how do you know? I choose to err on the side of caution.

In my daily life I don't think I've ever asked friends or acquaintances their children's vaccination status.

This is purely anecdotal, but it's something I've noticed in my homeschool groups that I've spent a good deal of time in - I don't see as many sensory-type issues. No clapping of the hands over the ears, less personal space problems, non-stop melt-downs, etc. It's particularly noticeable with long-term homeschoolers, as opposed to "accidental homeschoolers" like us. These were behaviors I would see frequently in kids in traditional school (and maybe it was just because traditional school is stressful!).

As I said, though, I've never asked anybody their vax status except maybe the flu vax that has come up in casual conversation.

IMHO there are multiple causes behind a complex disorder like ASD (which can encompass a rather broad range of issues). Vaccines have not been ruled out as a cause or a contributory factor. There is a $2 billion dollar compensation fund for vaccine injured children for a reason. Of course there could be other causes too (food and toxic chemicals imho).

JMO.

I do not know much on this subject, but like many other mothers, I was extremely nervous about vaccinations. My son's pediatrician explained to me in great detail (she sat with me for over an hour, she is AMAZING) every vaccine that he could possible receive and their "side effects". She said autism usually starts to become recognizable in children around 12-18 months which is when they typically get their first MMR shot. Just a thought...and another theory among many. I honestly just pray everytime before he gets his shots that he will not have a negative reaction to them and trust that God will take care of him and keep him safe.

I just wonder how much the food additives and artificial sweeteners and colors have influenced these diseases. It seems to me that a lot of lifestyles may have some influence that will come to light in the years ahead.

For what my opinion is worth I think vaccines can help bring the autism out more, but I do think it's something that's there before the vaccines too. I did not do MMR because I freaked out the day before his appt. Mine have had some vaccines, delayed but not the MMR yet (not sure we'll ever do it, we'll see). I have 1 friend who stands firm that her child's autism was caused by vaccines, she claims he TOTALLY changed immediately after the shot (she was on tv awhile back about it too). Other than her I don't know anyone with kids with autism. It does make you wonder and I personally believe the parents (who know their children best) when they say that the vaccines triggered the autism to come out.

I read a great book called "House Rules" (fiction book) that explained the vaccination/autism information pretty well, I thought.

Just FYI, I know a little boy who was diagnosed with autism at 4 years old. I saw autistic like symptoms in this boy at 9 months of age. So, his autism was not related to vaccines.

My own son had sensory integration disorder. I knew he was "different" from birth. Again, not autism or on the spectrum of autism, but a lot of autistic kids have sensory integration disorder. Ours was NOT related to vaccines.

-L.

What a great question! I don't have any experience with autistic kids, so I don't have an answer for you, but I do think that some people are more predisposed to autisim, just like I think some are more predisposed to being an alcholic or being obese. Of course there must be an environmental trigger, but who knows what it is. Is it all the preservatives in our foods? Is it the hormones in our meat? Is it the things the mother eats while pregnant or what the child is exposed to at an early age? Is it a virus that the mom gets while pregnant or that the child gets that doesn't seem to do anything but then manifests itself later? I asked my pedi about the increase in autism and she said that as autism cases have increased, cases of "mental retardation" and other things along those lines have decreased. Basically, we have a new name for it now. Before, parents just delt with their kid and figured they were "slow" or something. then we figured out this name of autism and started labeling kids that instead of slow or retarded. I'm not trying to start a war either and I know those other labels are unacceptable now, but I do think that is true as well. I'm interested to see what people have to say about this. Thanks again for the great question.

Read this book. "The Vaccine Safety Manual" by Neil Z. Miller. It is the BEST on the subject. Totally unbiased (except for the forward that is written by some brain surgeon). This was the most helpful tool I was able to find. They have it on Amazon and it is WELL worth every cent. The guy who wrote it is a medical journalist and has spent years and years compiling this information. There are graphs, charts, statistics, etc... I personally have not met a child with Autism that was not vaccinated, but that is due largely to the fact that most kids are vaccinated. I do, however have two cousins (each from different parents) that received a vaccine and within 2 days turned from happy, healthy 1 years olds that were starting to talk, loved hugs and interaction, into fully Autistic children that can not function, still at 4 and 6 do not speak (anymore), will not look you in the eye etc... I do not believe it is one specific vaccine or even the dead viruses in the vaccines, but do 100% believe it has to do with all of the preservative like aluminum, formaldehyde, etc... that are found in the vaccines, our food and our water.