Any Suggestions??? - Los Angeles,CA

Read James Dobson's "The Strong Willed Child" and do it ASAP. It will be a life saver and you MUST stick to boundaries. If she knows you're going to respond to the tantrums and screaming, she's gotten what she wants. Learn NOW to tune it out and walk away when you put her in time out or her room and make her stay there till she calms down and stops . SHE IS old enough to understand that. I've raised two kids and they are now adults and THAT was not tolerated

This is exactly the kind of problem that can be turned around by some compassionate communication. There's a fabulous book called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk. (You can read part of this practical guide to communicating with kids here: http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/038081...) They demonstrate how to help children communicate, identify their own emotional issues, and participate in finding workable solutions.

All behavior is basically a strategy to meet needs. Kids frequently don't use very effective strategies, because they have so little life experience. Your daughter might have some need that is not being met in your current family situation. And because kids have different personalities, their needs might be unque to each individual, so your son and your daughter behave differently.

So she is the "eldest" child, right?
Well, all of a sudden her world changed and she is probably resenting a lot of things...that only a little girl can fathom. For example, there is now ANOTHER baby in the house.. this means MORE pressure for her.... to behave.
Next, she probably has TONS of "expectations" on her, that is maybe not things she can handle emotionally nor mentally.
Oldest children, are often expected of things, not which is in line with their capability. Or they are expected to be and act like an older child, and they are not. And they get frustrated.

Next, she does not know how to "cope" with her frustrations. She is only 5... so they don't have automatic ability for coping.
So then, punishments/scolding/time-outs/taking things away, even rewards do NOT work.... because they do NOT address her real problem. It only tries to address the "symptoms."

Expectations that are not age appropriate=frustrated child, because they cannot do what is expected=frustrated parent who then pressures child more=child irked & upset again because their feelings are not heard nor allowed nor validated and they are not getting what they need=a parent who just punishes child for any reason or feeling the child has without assisting the child to express or explain what is going on inside them.

Your daughter is 5 plus she is obviously lacking in something... to me, her acting up is just a symptom... and the punishments on her are just band-aids. It does not address the realness of what is going on in the child... or why or why not.
When my girl gets like that... it is generally because TOO much is happening or expected of her ... or because she just NEEDS me.... even if to just sit on my lap and not say anything. She needs comforting... and "bonding." Keep in mind that a child "bonds" with their parent in different ways... at different ages and age junctures. It does NOT only happen when they are babies. It needs to be continual and "resuscitated".... whenever you see your child getting this way.
Whenever I re-connect and re-bond with my Daughter, she always gets happier... and more compliant... and more pleasant... and more of everything wonderful.
Mostly, when my daughter acts up... it means that she feels "jilted" for some reason.... she does not do it just to be a pain in the butt. She does have a reason... and when I do listen well to her, with my heart... I can see her for the tender child she is and what she is having a hard time with.

ALSO, an oldest child tends to get scolded/punished MORE than the other siblings. And well, that makes ANY kid, just so irked and its not fair. AND things like screaming about what clothes to wear, is just a way for the child to "control" their own life... and not have EVERYTHING dictated to them. Is she perhaps just mega frustrated???? And so even something like dressing... just gets her so upset? And anyway, WHY can't she "choose" what she wants to wear? My daughter, when she was that age, COULD choose her own clothes to wear each day. NO biggie. She was old enough and in Kindergarten. So what if the outfit didn't match... that is part of growing up and learning.... and for the child to trust their own instincts and choices and self-expression.

All the best,
Susan

A lot going on, and good advice given on overall handling of a strong-willed child. (I have one of those too). I'll only add that to the part about her not liking what you give her to dress. Stop picking out her clothes for her. It very quickly becomes a power struggle. Give her the control over what she wears, especially when there is so much a 5 year old cannot control, and wants to. As long as she has access to her clothes, let her pick them and dress herself. Don't worry about matching things, and don't put a bunch of rules and restrictions in place. I just make sure the most weather-appropriate, school-appropriate, clean clothes (and ones I knows she likes) are easy for my DD to see when she opens the drawer. (I tend to put the clothes I care less for out of sight). Save rewards such as, TV, toys, snacks, outside play, etc. for after she is dressed if she doesn't want to get dressed when asked.

Have you tried giving her choices?? Instead of saying "wear the blue dress today" you can say "Which would YOU like to wear: The blue dress or pink overalls?" Or what the heck, just let her choose everything to wear. My 5 year old chooses her clothes every day. Sometimes she will wear full-on princess outfits to preschool, which is fine. Nobody even bats an eye. When she does this and we go shopping, she gets lots of attention in the store: "Oh, we have a fairy shopping here today!" and she beams. Most of the time, your child's clothing choice really does not matter. They can wear whatever and it won't have negative consequences.

As far as clean up, offer her a choice in that, too, such as: "do you want to clean up before or after you wash your hands for lunch?" or "I'll help you clean up, do you want me to clean up the legos and you do the barbies or would you rather clean up the legos?"

My daughter is a little bit of a control freak (first born), and it always helped her to get a little bit of control. Another thing that helped was for me to give her some warning. I would say "I'm setting the timer for 5 minutes. When the buzzer beeps, we need to clean up for lunch" (or leave the playground, or get in the car, etc) This allows her to "finish" the things that she was working on. She is a little bit older, so she probably has some pretty elaborate play going on, and most of the time, you are not stopping her play to go out for ice cream, you want her to do something way less fun that the play she is doing. Give her warning. Once she gets used to the five minute drill, it will be better. And it leaves you out of it "The buzzer says it is time to clean up!!" It is not as easy to argue with a buzzer! Good luck.

I feel for you because I have a 5 year old who is doing the same thing. The first thing I did was talk to her pediatrician about her behavior because it is hard to deal with. They said that this is a phase that some children go through and others do not. We had another baby also and noticed her behavior started while I was pregnant. Although she has always been a strong willed child, she is seemingly more difficult now.
We have tried everything from removing tv and toys from bedroom and having her earn toys back by good behavior, to loosing outside playtime or tv before nap. Her behaior includes everything from kicking doors and walls to throwing things and screaming so loudly that we have to close the windows. Her new thing now is "I hate you" or "let me out of time out or i'm going to hit you".
I have 4 children and we have never had these kinds of issued before.
I know you are tired because you have a new baby I am there now. My baby is 15 months old now and suffers from grade 5 kidney reflux so she is sick alot. So, I feel your frustration!
The big thing is to remember that she is only 5. Yes, she is old enough to know right form wrong, but at this age they are learning to deal with their frustration. You need to be firm and there has to be appropriate consequenses for her actions. This may seem like it doesn't work (at least I feel that way sometimes) but eventually it will. Also you may have to redirect. Before I react to her behavior, I try to assess the situation quickly. Is it nap time, have I spent quality time with her today, is she feeling well etc. If her behavior is due to something beyond her control, I don't go with punishmnent. If she is just being naughty then I deal with it.
Make sure you try to rest when you can. It is definitely easier to deal with a strong willed child when you are not overtired and frustrated! Good luck.

I am not sure I would bargan, ever because it gives kids more power than they can handle. 5 year olds are just not know for keeping their end of a "deal" either.

I would pick one thing, the dicipline she likes the least-be it time out or taking her stuff away, and I would make a concerted effort to do it at the very first sign of the behavoir you don't like, and do it often, and then don't give in when when she pitches a fit about not liking it. She may have figured out that you will try something differnent (something she likes better, or she may get her way that time out of your exhasperation.) I would just apply total consistancey, over a few weeks even, and never, never fail to follow through. It may be very hard work, but it does pay off.

If you have already really done that, and you are the only one who can search your soul and say if you have or not, then you might want to see if there is a nuerological issue that is keeping her from learning from consistent concequences and traditional dicipline applied regularly. Kids who do the same thing over and over who would be better off learning a lesson are showing a flag for issues that can be helped by developmental experts. If that turns out to be the case, let me know, and I can point you in the right direction.

M.

Lots of really great discipline and parenting techniques that talk about shaping the behavior of the child to avert these types:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316779040/carroll...

In the meantime, here are some of his articles online that can be helpful:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/t060100.asp

Try giving her options to choose, pick out 2 outfits and say "which do you want to wear?"

CONSISTENCY is key. No reward system or punishment will work without consistency. That means EVERY time she shouts, kicks, screams, she has a consequence. I have a very strong-willed little girl, now six who's been like this since she was 2- battling with me on every little thing- clothes, toys, food, every thing was a major battle with screaming, yelling, kicking her older brother, crying saying terrible things to us. I was a wreck trying to deal with her so I signed up for two parenting classes, two nights a week while working and two kids. They were extremely helpful and I learned most importantly to be CONSISTENT so at first that meant physically carrying her to her bedroom and standing there to hold the door closed for a time-out EVERY time which some days felt like all day long. As time went on, she learned to go to her room for a time-out which she still does occasionally when she knows she's done something wrong. I learned the way to parent is nurturing, but firm. Don't parent with anger which I find really hard to follow at times. Simply teach the consequences to her actions. You have to pick one system like time outs for negative behavior, rewards for positive behavior. It won't work if you're jumping all over from time outs, to removing toys. Stick with one thing. So, if you do time outs, you have to give her time outs repeatedly- 1 minute for each year so she's in her room for 5 minutes with every time she acts up. I give a warning first and a countdown. Stop that in five seconds or you go to your room. 1-2-3..If she continues with her behavior-kicking, screaming, throwing- give her the time out for 5 minutes and make sure she does NOT come out until that time is up. I always repeat at the end of 5 minutes, "No kicking." or whatever behavior it is and I get to eye level, and give her a hug telling her I know she can act better. If she continues, she buys herself another 5 minutes. But you've got to stick with it. If you don't, she'll learn as she has to manipulate you and get her way. I've been doing this for years, and now my 6-just turned 6 is so well behaved, and respectful but still has her moments, and is used to going to her room, used to the system and doesn't fight it. But I know it's tough when you're in it. Good luck!

I haven't read all the responses so I may be repeating but I think you need to make one on one time for your daughter. She's looking for attention from you. She's the oldest and the most self sufficient so she probably gets the least attention from you. If you set up a special "date" time with her a couple of times a week I'm sure that will help. Also, pick your battles. Let her choose what she wants to wear and give her choices for what she wants to eat or do. If she feels that she has some control over her life, she'll calm down. As long as she isn't hurting herself or anyone else, let her have a tantrum and walk away. I do this with my son. He calms himself eventually then comes back to me and he's much easier to deal with.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

This is a tough one. I am not good at thinking of things on the spot, so I have to plan ahead.
couple of possible things you might use:
give her some choices (no more than 2). Pick 2 outfits and let her choose. If she won't choose one, ask her "What are you going to do?" Let her come up with a solution.
Another thing I am using right now is telling my kids (mostly the 3 yo) that what he is doing is no fun for me, so he can choose to have fun with me or go into his room (not as a timeout) until he is ready to have fun.
If she needs to clean up, you can even give her a choice of cleaning up now or in 5 minutes or maybe what part she will clean up (the blocks or the cards, or whatever...)
You can also try playing up the big girl role and ask her how she thinks she can help you or "teach" the baby how to be big.
Maybe your husband can take her out for something special for just them?
You are probably really tired and it will take a lot of patience to get past this. Good luck!

Hi there,

I think maybe bargaining isn't the way to go. If you are bargaining you are in some way implying that you are not in authority. You shouldn't need to strike a bargain in order to have your daughter obey you. She should obey you because she trusts you to give her direction and she respects your place as well as hers within the family. If you seem unsure, change tactics or parenting strategies often, try to bargain for her respect you don't instill that sense that you are in control and that she can trust you. Believe it or not as much as she's kicking against the authority, it's not as much to be in charge as it is to make sure that YOU are. She needs to know she can only push so far because that means within those confines she is safe. If the boundaries keep moving, then there is no safe place for her. She will keep pushing and testing because she just so desperately wants those boundaries. Your son, on the other hand, is feeling more secure. It could be because girls pair up where boys are more comfortable in groups and so this third child means there has to be an odd one out and she's afraid she's the odd one. The baby needs a lot of attention and her brother isn't in trouble as much so he gets more positive attention so she is worried she's the one. I know you said this was going on well before the baby was born, but she could have been seeing this coming and worrying all along. This isn't necessarily what happened but it is a possibility.

Consistency and rules are the most important thing right now because with all the change SOMETHING has to be always the same. More than the type of discipline, the consistency of that discipline is important. Sit down with your husband and come up with basic household rules for instance:

1. Treat each other kindly. This means no hurting with hands, feet or words.
2. Treat the house kindly. This means no hitting or kicking the walls or destroying any of the things in the house.
3. Listen and obey. When you are told to do something listen to those words and follow directions.

Keep it simple. Set up a rewards and consequences system. When a rule is followed a reward is gained (for every 5 starts you get 15 minutes of television and for every 35 stars a trip to the park, the pet store to pet the puppies or something like that) and when a rule is broken a consequence is earned (for every infraction you go to bed 5 minutes early, for every 5 infractions you lose tv for the day, or something that means something to her). Set the up, write them up and put them on your wall along with a chart to track rewards and consequences. Be loving but firm. If she screams, yells and throws a fit remove her from the room. She can't be allowed to punish the family because she is angry. Let her pick out her clothes for the next day from two or three outfits. Give her choices everywhere you can, reward her behavior and praise her at every oportunity, even for little things. Giver her the consequences she has earned consistently but with love, not anger.

If you try it and stick to it, I bet you see a different, and more importantly a happier kid.

Good luck and congrats on that baby!