Another Dog Snapping Question from a Different Angle

I'm in animal rescue, have been for years, and honestly, I'm shocked that your parents are allowing this behavior to continue. This kind of situation can lead to tragedy, and it certainly isn't the dog's fault. A dog that herds children needs to be corrected immediately, because it does turn into nipping. If the style of crate that your parents have isn't working, they need to buy another type. If the dog cannot handle being locked in a room, then they should put it outside. If they continue to subject your children to an untrained dog in this way, you will have to put your foot down and say no visits at their house until the dog is under control. Do some of your own footwork, call around to find a good trainer and recommend it to them. But in the end, that dog and your children should never be in the same room together until you are told by a responsible trainer that the dog is safe around children. End of story.

I wouldn't visit her house anymore. I've heard of dog herding....my sister-in-laws dog does this too but she puts her outside when we're visiting. I know they're just nipping and not actually biting...but you just never know. It's still an animal. I would have had a heart attack if a dog nipped at my child....especially only 2 months old.

Apparently the dog is never going to learn since it's supposedly been trained and all that...so the only solution is to not go into her house. She can come visit you. Then maybe she'll learn that the dog is an issue and figure out how to keep it outside when you're there.

Just be kind and polite and tell Mom that you don't feel comfortable visiting their home anymore. She is welcome to come to your house (right?) but without the dog.

German shepards are very dominant dogs and need a strong leader to follow. It sounds to me like your parents are not in control of their dog at all. A training class is supposed to train the OWNER how to make the dog obey, it is not only for the dog. Having owned a shepard, they can make fabulous pets but are very demanding dogs in terms of lifelong exercise and time. You need to walk and run a big dog like that daily for at least an hour AM and PM, you need to train the dog (which will seem like play to them, teach them to come to their name, to stay when you walk away, to lay, sit, to be able to take their food away when they are eating, etc). It is unfair to the dog to expect it to act like a lapdog - and it won't. This dog sounds like it is in control, and then all the wild instincts will prevail. Your parents need to find a dog that matches their lifestyle and personality and give this dog to someone who knows what a full grown shepard needs. I have seen a fully trained shepard stop midstride when told to "stay" and remain in that exact position with the paw up until the owner came back into the room minutes later and released it from the command. They are my favorite dogs because they are so intelligent and trainable, but this dog is no match for an elderly couple that does not invest time to be in charge. Keep your children away. One final note: your parents could also be in danger if the dog is truly the one in charge and they do something he does not want them to do. Maybe they are just embarassed that they cannot control the dog, so I would come with suggestions, not just accusations. Maybe find a place that will take the dog, print out training info, find a good trainer that can come to their house to give an informed assessment of what the dog needs, etc. Good luck but think safety first!

I agree with a previous poster....a dog CANNOT get out of a true crate. If they chose to or not to train their dog is their business but I would insisit that the dog be crated anytime your children are visiting. I understand the dog is their baby right now (I am an animal lover) but you never let your love for an animal put others in danger esp children. I have a boxer and he is crated when anyone comes to our house unless they specify that they would like him loose to play with him.

My grandma has a very ill behaved Corgi, and she puts Maggie outside when we come over, b/c she nips at the kiddo. Grandma knows she doesnt want to be responsible for Nora getting bitten, even by accident.

Even if they took the dog to a training class, it doesnt sound like it's socialized to be around children. I would tell your mom if she doesnt want to put the dog outside and put her grandchildren first, she doesnt have to see them.

I know your parents love their dog. I sure know I love my dog. But what really concerns me is the dog tried to nip a tiny baby that wasn't bothering him in any way.

I would tell your Mom the truth. The dog made you nervous before, but that last incident truly validated your fears. You love her, but you are not comfortable bringing the kids over any more unless the dog is LOCKED in another room............or just tell her you would rather visit at your house from now on.

They need to check into Cezar's way dog training (he is on Animal planet). He is awesome & we have implemented some of his techniques on our little dog.
I do know of a dog that was able to excape a metal crate by pushing up on the top of it with it's back. A plastic crate & a bark collar with the door shut for visits until they get the dog under control. I would not go to thier house until the dog is crated (as above) or trained properly. If they can't protect you & your family from their dog then put your foot down & say 'no visits at your house'.
Also another poster said to put a muzzle on the dog. That is a great idea, but the dog will either bark more because it can't nip or it may start scratching people because it can't nip.

God bless!

Your parents didn't get a real dog crate, a dog cannot get out of a standard airline-approved dog crate. That is ridiculous, they do not have opposable thumbs. They may have gotten something that is a bed or something, but not a real crate.

Whether they did dog training or not, you'll never know, but regardless, it did not work. They need to do it again, and it needs to be the kind of training that goes beyond teaching a couple of commands. Good training should train the humans how to be in command, that is the most important part. They need to be the boss.

I love dogs, and do not assume all dogs are dangerous, and in fact like big dogs better than small. But in this situation, I would not return to their house until the situation was resolved to my liking. Either a crate, a new training class with RESULTS, or the willingness to put it outside for the duration of the visit. It won't be a fun conversation, but they know the dog doesn't behave well. I would also approach it nicely and with helpful information, don't accuse or give ultimatums. Have a printout on REAL dog crates, and some information on good quality dog training classes in your area, and just tell them you are not comfortable coming to visit until the dog's behavior is in check. You could always just buy the crate yourself- they carry them at Petsmart, Walmart, and online even. I'm not sure how big the dog is but our 50 lb dog's crate was under a $100, and there is no possible way he can get out of it, we have used them daily with our dogs. But I think training is really the best solution. Your parents need to be able to control the dog. And if they can't control it, it could refuse to go in the crate and there isn't much you could do to force it.

Good luck!

I am so sorry to hear this. I feel terrible for this dog. It isn't his/her fault! German Shepherds are very intelligent highly trainable dogs, but because they are so smart, their owners must be careful to not be the one being trained instead of the other way around...

Your parents have failed this dog. They need to step up and take control. Since they haven't, this dog has. That is what all dogs do. If there is no pack leader.. they BECOME it.

Your parents need to watch the Dog Whisperer and learn some things about their role in all of this. Reading a few books on the breed wouldn't hurt either. In the meantime, I would not have my tiny kids at their house.

We have a German Shepherd that I would trust with any child. When she was a puppy, she too would run down the halls with our kids and try to herd them... it was playtime for her. They are nips, however, and not bites when they are doing their herding. She doesn't nip anymore... just runs with them.

The nipping when handing the baby over is much more troubling. Our GSD will sit and watch my nephew wallow all over her bed (the dog's bed) and look to me like "What do I do?? Is this okay?" She licks them (other friends' babies), or gets up and walks away, and sometimes both. Generally the biggest problem is that she might knock an early walking toddler over with her tail...lol. The older kids... she thinks she is one of them and is right in the mix with them. And she gets excited and WHINES when kids come over... because she knows it is gonna be exciting and lots of running around playing. ALL kids, she is very protective of (not possessive... it is not the same thing). But adults... she is much more cautious about.

These dogs have some amazing abilities and certainly can be wonderful family members.... when they are properly trained and understand their place in the pack. (And I wouldn't be surprised that the dog has learned a way to open it's kennel, depending on what kind it is... ours can open her door at the kennel where she is boarded when we travel... and she has done so and let other dogs out as well...lol. They have to double lock her kennel now. She also figured out how to open a friend's fence gate after we put her out in their back yard during a visit once. It took her about 4 minutes... and she was sitting on their front door step looking in at us... their dog was still in the back inside the fence. We put her back in the back yard thinking the gate must not've been secured properly... and watched... she opened it again and went right back to the front door because our kids were in the house. Their dog still to this day hasn't figured out how to open it). She also can open doors in the house and has let herself in through the garage from outside more than once. (the kids were out playing and she was thirsty.. so she came in to have a drink, lol).

The first step to Mom getting a handle on this is to take the dog for daily walks, and ensure that MOM is setting the pace and not getting dragged around. There is a right way and a wrong way to take a walk with a dog. The dog may have been through a training class... but if you don't practice the discipline at home on a daily basis... it means nothing. They must exert their authority over the dog or the dog becomes the authority. And they can be dangerous when they are the ones in charge... not because of evilness or meanness.. but because dogs behave differently than humans instinctively, and they have powerful jaws.

Post "So What Happened" comment:

Glad to read your update, and to know that Dad has a handle on things. The only thing that seems to be missing is that Mom sounds like she let Dad handle it. Ideally, the should have taken the dog to classes together, so that both of them learned the skills to handle the dog. The dog sounds like it recognizes Dad as the Alpha, but not Mom. That needs to be corrected, and the only way for that is for Mom to take some training-- with or without the dog accompanying her.
I would suggest also, that if getting to a training class is difficult for her, that she at least invest in a book on training and read it. I recommend "How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend" by The Monks of New Skete. It is chock full of information. Also, watch Cesar Milan on National Geographic Channel.

V.,
You have received lots of good advice. The safety of you children come first. One of our SIL had a dog that was agressive around children. She wouldn't put it outside. It bit one of our nephews on the face and she blamed him! Before we would visit them, I insisted that we would not stay there unless the dog was kept away from my boys. She argued with me, but finally complied.
Another friend had a big dog. I asked her to kennel it before we would go to her house. She never had a problem doing that. She wanted us to feel comfortable and enjoy the visits.
Victoria

The first time a dog would nip or even try to nip my baby would be the last time I am on that house. I know the owners are your parents but you have to make it clear that you don't trust that dog around your kids. They are the owners and have to make sure that the dog will not harm anyone.

Hi V.,

We had almost an identical problem with my MIL and her dog. My MIL is a widow and got this dog I think to keep her company and also to alert her, as it is a barker. But it's also very protective of her and has nipped my daughter before, and also growled and cornered her in a hallway barking at her. I grew up around dogs and have no fear of them, but this dog is nervous and it was known that she did not like children when she was adopted from the shelter. I don't trust this dog around my kids.

I will not bring my kids over to her house when the dog is there. If she wants to have them over she has to put the dog outside for the entire visit or in the kennel. Most of the time we don't go to her house, we meet at a restaurant.

Don't feel bad about this. It's important that your kids feel safe and secure and also that they grow up knowing that some dogs are nice and can be good pets and they don't need to fear them all because of this negative experience.

Good luck

I'm with the others, if she can't put the dog away, don't go there anymore. They can visit your home w/out their dog.
I had a dog before my kids were born and he was my baby. I spoiled him like he was my baby. After the kids, unfortunately went back to dog status, kids come first.

If the kennel is locked, the dog should not be able to get out. I just can't see how the dog can unlock the bolt on the outside. If we assume that the dog can, then ask your mom to get the dog a crate and crate train it.

I'd make it very clear to your mom that you are only going to visit when the dog is put away and away from the kids. When you tell her this, also tell her that she is more than welcome to come visit at your house whenever you want.

I'd also say something like," while I know the dog is your baby, I just can't risk having her around my kids. No dog can really be trusted with children, and give that X tried to nip the baby, I just want to be safe. Could you please put the dog away when we are visiting?"

If she says NO, then you are going to have to follow through.

I just would sit down with you Mom and tell her nicely that she and your dad will have to visit you at your home. I would tell her you love the dearly but the dog scares you and her grandchildren. I am with you all the way on this one. I am afraid of German Shepard's my self and have grown up with them in my neighborhood and no matter how much they were trained they still turn on their loved ones at some point. If the dog is getting out of the kennel and acting this way then I do not believe this dog is properly trained. I would not ever have my children around it. I wish you luck!

My brother in law and his family used to have German Shepard dogs. When we would be there the dogs would go crazy. (think kujo here) my brother in law would always say oh they just want to play they are not trying to bite you. well one time we were there and the dogs ripped another sister in laws arm to shreds. we have not been back to there house since. We have seen them at our home and ohters homes but refuse to go to their house. Why would someone keep a dog that is very clearly mean is beyond me. But them saying oh its harmless is not true. Don't take your kids back there. Another poster was right all it takes is one bite and a child could die.