5Th Grade Girl Having a Hard Time with Other Girls at School

J.;
I also have a 5th grade girl and she is going through much the same thing. She is liked by her teachers and the school staff but the other kids seem to hate her and fight with her all the time. She has even been kicked out of school because another boy hit her and she fought back. I, like yo, have thought about moving her to a different school but in my small community it is not an option. I have talked with other Mothers from other schools and it seems to be everywhere. We thought the problem was because my daughter is different, she is adopted. (We were her grandparents)
I don't know what to tell you but if you would like to visit with me you can email me and we can go from there. I live in Wyoming and even though I have three grown sons my daughter is the only one living here so she really is an only child.
Please keep me posted.
Good luck;
J. (____@____.com)

Unfortunately, she is doing to find bullies and mean people every where. Moving would not teach her how to deal. I've also heard that the mean girl thing actually starts earlier in life, so she had a few years of grace.

When my daughter was having some issues with one girl, we chatted about what things she could do to impact the situation. I let her come up with some ideas then I suggested a few as well. I told her some of my experiences with mean people and how sometimes showing a bit of grace or taking an interest in getting to know that person could make a difference too.

I also just got out of The Landmark Forum and got some powerful insights about the stories/interpretations that I've been dragging around with me for over 40 years. They have a session specifically for Young People. How powerful it would have been to understand some of these principles and gain power and choice back when I was young. You can google Landmark Education for more info.

Hope that helps!
Take care,
S.

As a previous teacher we always talked about the girls in 5th grade. It starts at the end of 4th grade and it goes through 5th grade. Depending on how things go 6th is okay. But the girls really fight and get clicky in 5th grade. It is a phase, a hard one to go through, but definitely a phase.

My heart goes out to your daughter, I can guess what seh is going through because a similar thing happened to me when I was in 6th grade. I amnow 28 years old and I still struggle with feelings of worthlessness that started when I was teased and tormented by the horrible classmates that I had in 6th grade. I was the new girl in that small town and somehow became hated because I was so different (grew up in East Asia, liked to eat sushi, my parents had a little more money than most, etc.) The other kids, both girls and boys, called me all kinds of names, slut was a favorite, made fun of my hair, clothes, and everything else about me, stole from my locker, told the teachers lies about me, and were just generally monsters. I still hate those kids so much, the worst part was that I began to believe them and think that no one would ever want to be my friend because I was so worthless. I wanted to die and I thought about killing myself every night as I lay in bed trying to sleep, but I loved my parents and siblings too much to do that to them. It really was the worst experience of my whole life, and I am so grateful that my parents finally decided to take me out of school and homeschool me for a year until we moved to Korea, where I was much more accepted at my new school. If you are willing to give it a try, homeschooling may be a good solution for your daughter too, esspecially now days when you can do it all online for free through your local school district (depending on where you live, but that is the case in Idaho where I live). Getting involved in more positive social settings outside of school will help too, look for activities that involve other age groups too, whether older or younger than your daughter. Good luck, and please don't underestimate how much it hurts to be hated at school.

J.,

I have a son, but 5th grade was hands down the worst year for everyone, not just girls and not just boys. I am the PTA Pres at his school, so I bend the Principal's ear from time to time and it seems that I am not the only one who thought that year was incredibly difficult. Cliques are just the tip of the iceberg. And, the worst thing is that they can change hourly--literally. I have witnessed girls crying through class, and laughed with teachers about the drama ("I just don't know how I can ever be her friend again after this.") Whew!! I loved the first response about reinforcing the good things and being there for them. It is hard to watch your child suffer, but sometimes just listening is the best remedy.

Also, at this age children are beginning to go through puberty (that's why maturation is in 5th grade). Some are earlier than others and behaviors that their parents model for them also contribute to the way they treat people (ever notice some mommies never outgrow being that way, too?). The increase in hormones is largely to blame for the emotional issues, and I promise it does get better. Neither of my children have super fond memories of grade school, but my older one blossomed in jr high and has done even more so in high school. He says it is better because there are more people to become friends with and you can find friends who aren't as judgmental. I hope this little bit of insight helps you, I know it isn't much. Also, talk to your Principal, some of them give you remarkable feedback...

It is everywhere and going into junior high it will probably be worse. My 5th grader has the same problems.Her " best " friend turned on her and managed to make every other girl in her class turn against her also.
It was hard for her to where there was physical action involved. All I could tell her is to mind her own business and be nice as she could try. Eventually, the other girls backed off and was nice again to her. The "best" friend only ended up with one other girl to pal around with.

Well, When your daughther gets home from school, ask her how her day was and, if the girls were being nice. Maybe you need to talk to her about more often. Set up a conference with her teacher and tell them about what's going on. If it continues you should talk to the girls personaly. Oh, and make sure that your daughter's good friend is there to help her too.

We had the same problem in our area. It started in 4th grade. My daughter was teased, laughed at, & the girls were constantly saying or doing things to her, it increasingly got worse and worse. (5th & 6th grade girls CAN be really awful!)
I tried going to the teacher, then the counselor about this problem. After that the Principal. The principal did not follow the guidelines about safe school policy. He said it was our daughter that she had to be doing something to invite this. She (& we) took it for a year and a half and then her grades began slipping, and our child who had LOVED school began to hate it. We finally transferred her to another school in the district WITH the school board's help. She finally got back to her straight A's and in her 6th grade year didn't even miss one day of school. Sometimes it is normal teasing, but if it continues day in and day out it is NOT.
So I would do this:
1. Set up a meeting with the school's counselor and your daughter, and talk to her teacher about ways to positively reinforce her. (hopefully she is getting LOTS of this at home! (: )
2. Talk to the principal and see if he can help.
If those don't work, don't move.
3. Call all the elementary school's in the area and see which one's have open enrollment. When you find one that does, ask about class sizes. (They may tell you they are all full).
4. Ask them if you can transfer her to one.
5. If they refuse, call the school board and talk to someone there and tell them that you WANT her to have a positive public school experience, but you are being denied that option. Then tell them that you may have to pull her out of public schooling and home school her if you can't find a school to transfer her to.
6. They will give you options and help you find a way to get her transferred.
You HAVE to do all the legwork on this one, it is tough at times, but truly rewarding when you suceed. YOU are the only one who will stick up for your daughter!
(Also, to be fair to the teacher, & counselor we had ...this group of girls she went to school with were a real bunch of work. The Junior High had big problems with them, and a member of the administration there said it was one of the hardest bunch of students they had had for a long time.)

Hi J.,

I hate that kids act like this toward one another. But I echo the others' opinions that this is commons everywhere.

Encouraging her self confidence by emphasizing what she is good at and doing activities she likes is great.

Just listening to her is best. Not trying to solve all her problems for her. She will feel so much better just being heard and validated. You can always encourage her to figure out solutions herself by asking questions- how do you think you want to handle that? what might improve that situation, etc. But not being overbearing.

Mostly, I wanted to pass along the title of the book "Queen Bees and Wannabes", can't remember the author. It's all about cliques and how to support your daughter.

Good luck. My daughter is in 3rd grade, so I have a year or two until this all starts and I'm already stressed about it!

First and foremost you should be talking to her teacher. It is never be tolerated that there is meaness amongst classmates. Even if they cannot micro manage the class, it is to be presented as a whole that bullying, mean behavior and even clicks should not be allowed during school.
In the three years my daughter has gone to school the teachers have been very proactive not to tolerate and to work with the kids on this subject. In sixth it will get harder.
I can recommend if there are not a ton of girls in her class, to have a "party" for no reason. Invite the girls in her class to come over, hang out, order pizza and maybe come in jammies, have some games and promote outside of school activities. Kids have a narrow scope and go along with the crowd when I feel if they knew each other better outside of school they may realize they have more in common with each other and not to judge.
It is common and moving will not allow her to exert herself nor will it solve the problem. Moving will only teach her to run from her problems. This is such a common thing everywhere, there are even "clubs' at recess and my daughter is in second grade. I told her this piece of advice, "be with people that make you feel good about who you are, never judge someone else, never prevent anyone else to join you in your play at recess and always be the bigger person, if someone is mean, walk away and think maybe they are having a really bad day"

Friendships come and go and then there are the select few friends that can last a lifetime. I still am friends with my best friend from 3rd grade.

It takes effort, patience and promoting her self confidence. Friends don't define us, however they are a bonus in life.

If there is fighting within her class or someone is being abusive you need to address it with the teacher and principal. They have onsite couselors in most schools to help with this. Doing training work with the kids to help them be more empathetic to others and know what is appropriate.

Encourage your daughter to stand up for herself, but with dimplomacy, get her involved in other activities outside of school that she is good at to boost her self esteem and broaden her friendship possiblities. Work with the school, maybe set up outside of school get togethers with girls she may or may not associate currently at school with. Good luck, her self esteem is what you need to concentrate on as that will help her in all sorts of situations, now is just the tip of the crazy behavior and clickiness, it gets worse in middle school! If she stands proud and doesn't let people label or define her she will be okay! :)

Sorry to hear of your daughter's struggles. My neighbor moved her girl to two different, local schools for much the same reasons. She has been disappointed to find hassles at each. So moving the whole family seems a big response, but an understandable one to consider.
I haven't read all the replies, forgive me if I repeat a sugestion.
The Girl Scouts of Colorado have a program to address this "relational agression" that many girls experiment with around middle school. It is called Power UP. Lisa Scott is the coordinator and her email is ____@____.com She is busy but will get back to you!
THey run 6 week and over night programs to help girls learn to deal with eachother.
Also, in Boulder County, there are a few girls groups run by the school district and private therapist to help ease this transition to highschool that seems to begin around 5th grade. Maybe there are such by you?? It seems to be very powerful for the girls to begin to figure out things among their peers and for themselves, so these guided group settings may help your daughter, and you!!
-A.

No specific advice, but I think it's common everywhere. I remember 5th grade as being the hardest year socially and emotionally. I hated it! I too had one great friend, but the rest of the girls were set on making our lives miserable. They were constantly discussing who was going out with whom, etc. I had no desire to "date" in 5th grade, not that my parents would have let me! Anyway, a tough year, but 6th grade was much better.

I understand what you are going thru. My daughter is in 5th grade and is having the same problem. There are some girls who tell her that if she is not their friend they will call me and have her grounded or tell the principle and have her suspended. I have talked to the school, but they don't care. To me this is bullying in my book and I went thru this in school, so I hate seeing her go thru this. Now she is worried about going to Middle school, because of what some of the kids are saying. We are thinking of moving but then it is not fair to her sister.

So sorry to hear this. . . it's really hard I'm glad to hear she has one good friend--often, that's all you need to keep from being miserable.
Consider keeping your daughter happy and busy (not overscheduled, but with little time to mope) with extra-curricular activities that interest her and may not include people from her school. She will be able to make friends with people who do not necessarily travel in the exact social circle she does, and will be able to have friends from different activities that are not so clique-y. (Like, she's my friend from soccer, she's my friend from gymnastics, she's my friend from art class, etc.) Finding positive adult role-models can be enormously comforting and encouraging to her during this turbulent time, too.
In the meantime, I highly recommend reading "Hold on to Your Kids" by Dr. Gordon Neufeld. It's a masterpiece and addresses the common but unhealthy phenomenon of "peer orientation" and how to prevent your children from falling into it. Sometimes our eagerness for our children to be popular among friends backfires and pushes them away from their relationship with us. It sounds like peer orientation has set in with her unkind peers, and that's too bad. You sound like you're in-tune and connected with your daughter, s good for you. This book changed my whole perspective on child-rearing for the better--if the historical stuff at the beginning seems dry, skip through it and get to the current information. You could find it in a cheap paperback at Amazon or POwells.
Good luck!

Girls can be so mean! Don't you think this is normal? Moving or changing schools will not change the problems, they might be different but still there will be problems, this is part of growing up. I know it is so hard to watch your kids suffer, we want them to not get hurt! But learning to deal with these situations is actually good, we all know that this stuff carries over in to adult life in different forms. I would say maybe get her involved in some activities that she really likes, all my kids do Tae Kwon do and it has had a positive affect on them. But anything, maybe dance or drama or sports? Something to build her confidence! Hang in there mom, she will be ok!

Ah, yes. 5th grade and the beginning of the clicks. My kids are grown and established, but we all remember those things all too well. We moved several times to different states and found it in every school they attended. I have 2 daughters, this phenomenon had a much more negative impact on the younger. With both girls, I just kept reminding them that school is for learning skills they will need after they graduate. Kept telling them that many kids, in order to feel better about themselves have to try and make someone else feel worse. Tried to teach them that it shouldn't be a competition for popularity. Kept repeating and reinforcing the values and morals we belived in at home.
Kept telling them how lovely, bright and lovable they were. It was rough. Kids can be cruel. The clicks and who's in/out changes sometimes daily. It started in 5th grade and continued all the way to graduation. I held them when they cried about it, chastised when they participated in a "click" downgrading, endured when they screamed at me I didn't understand how it was. Just kept repeating what I knew to be true, they were lovely, bright, and needed to focus on academics and activities that were training them for life after graduation. We did move several times, so they endured the "new girl" target. Both were pretty, made excellent grades and excelled in athletics. Both enjoyed having a wide variety of friends and not being part of pack. They endured, the "you think you're better" and "you ain't all that" attacks. We made it and I have been thanked several times for hanging in there and telling them a thousand times how wonderful and special and individual they were. For being there to listen. For standing firm and not wavering on our household morals and values and goals. It's tough, it's daily and it lasts until they graduate. Not very encouraging, I know, but that's the way it is. Encourage your daughter to talk to you about these things, listen to what she has to say. Support her, remind her of how special she is. Keep telling her it's a thing kids do, no one knows why. Only step in to help if it's really necessary. School is 90% of your child's universe. Her social standing in that universe is uppermost in her mind. Just be there, be on her side(even when that means telling her she made a mistake). Good luck, hang in there, it may be a bumpy ride for quite some time to come.

My heart aches for your daughter. I remember those years all too well. Girls at that age are so mean. I think it is very common in all schools. I remember crying all the time and praying for friends. Sometimes I think the prettier and more talented girls are more picked on. I guess there is a little jealousy. Just tell her to hang in there and do whatever you can to make her feel special.

Unfortunately this is really common at this age, and it happens everywhere, so I probably wouldn't consider moving in this case. I'd do everything possible to keep communication open with your daughter, help her to develop confidence, and learn some tools to handle these situations. Maybe help her to develop relationships outside fo school if possible, such as through an outside activity. There are certainly books about it, and you can also talk with school counselors and check into parenting classes. At that age there are a couple American Girl books that might be helpful for her to read, about handling social situations.
Good luck to you!!

Moving is not the answer. This is something that is common everywhere. The best thing you can do is help your daughter feel her worth.

Just wanted to say its tough to watch our kids go through rough times like this...sorry she is facing the world of girls and grrrls. Anyway, there is a lot of great info on the web, most of it aimed to pre-teens. Google 'cliques' and you'll get a lot of great responses. Maybe you can sit together and discuss some of the advice provided and see if she can incorporate the techniques into everyday situations. GL!!

And surprisingly, most of the sites are aimed straight at girls. Since when do we learn how to be so hard on each other??

WOW!!!! I am going through the same thing with my daughter and a few girls in her class...She also has one good "Best Friend" that has been since kinder....so they've been together from the start, but these other girls came in in the 2nd and 3rd grade...anyway I notice you posted this January 10th of 09'...so how did u resolve this problem????Please help me because my daughter is really getting tired and wants to resolve this by fighting and trust me, she aint no weak person....I told her violence doesn't resolve anything....

This is something that goes on everywhere. I think these girls are just trying to find their nitch and figure out life. At this age they are very emotional about EVERYTHING.
Just ask her to about her day and let her know that she can talk to you about anything. My daughter is ten and 5Th grade and everyday she tells me that someone got into a fight with someone. I try to listen if the same girl is a common problem. Sometimes things get exagerated but I listen and tell her something that fits the problem. Usually by the end of the discussion it turns out to be a minor disagreement. I tell her not to get into the habit of staying mad. Try to be friends with everyone and not to say mean stuff because tomorrow she might have a new friend.
You didn't say how big the class was but I'm sure that your daughter and make friends with the friendly girls and avoid the really mean ones. Just tell her to be herself and she will have many girls that are her real friends.
There are some good books out there to help with these emotions and situations.

Moving would be the worst thing for your daughter, especially since it sounds as if the reson for the move would be to get your daughter out of the current friends situation.
Unfortunately, once a child starts school, it becomes an excersize in sociology. Even from kindergarten, kids are picking their friends and picking on the kids who are different. It is heartbreaking to see your child grow up being the odd man out. However, the more you and your family support your daughter for her own individuality, the better and more tolerant person she will become when she grows up.
You can help her find creative ways to deal with the issues at school, but you will never be able to take the route of forbidding her fomr being around these kids, that will only push her closer. Just be there for her and be supportive. Don't forget, it will get worse before she graduates high school, but moving is not a good idea. At least where she is now she has 1 good friend, if you move you will put her in a situation where she has no one.

Hi I am sorry to hear that you are going through this. I am also, my fourth grader is going through this also. I do think this is common for most places. what we tell our daughter is to just ignor them and move on. we are teaching her that as long as they are just words and not actions that we can tearn the other cheek. If they become actions then we take other steps. you could talk to the teacher, and the school princable and see if that could be of help.
good luck and just remember to always let her know you love her no matter what.

my daughter is in kindergarten...and so far she hasnt had any problems...BUT..I know eventually she will expierence it in some form these next few years. The American Girl company just put out a new AG movie and its American Girl : Chrissa. The moral and lesson of the story is about cliques and being bullied, knowing who your true friends are and standing up for yourself. I watched it with my daughter because I want her to be aware of the problem before it gets to her.

Hi J.,
I remember all to well what it was like going through 5th grade and then into middle school and being in the same boat as your daughter. I had a few good friends but the other girls insisted on making me feel bad for not being their friend. I hated going to school and it became where I was just there to get through the day and get home, it wasn't any fun and I wasn't learning either. When I got into 6th grade I really felt outcasted and I even started fighting with my teachers although I never fought with any of the kids. I was very quiet and never spoke much at all. Halfway through my 6th grade year my parents decided to pull me from public school and put me into a private Christian school and virtually overnight all the problems went away. The cliques were still there but no one was mean about it, if you wanted in you just asked and you were in. The principal and teachers were so ontop of things that bullying from anyone was not going to be allowed at all. I think going from a large public school to a small private school probably saved me from dropping out or becoming the odd troubled kid. I went back to public school in 9th grade because we moved but I would have rather stayed at the Christian school, but by 9th grade the puberty hormones and mean action of the kids had finally settled so high school was much easier and I actually loved my high school.

I don't know if there is a small private school in your area but if you really think you need to change schools, go that route. That way you don't have to move and your daughter can keep some of her friends but she won't be bullied either. Any teacher will tell you that middle school years are the hardest years on every child and teachers in large public schools just can keep up with all that's going on to keep it in check. Some kids can handle it on their own just fine but I couldn't, I was too quiet, small and meek. Your daughter might be the same way. Good luck with whatever you decide!

C. C.

5th grade is exactly when this started happening to me. It happens everywhere. My mom went to the principal, who called in the parents of all the other girls. Unfortunately, that just made it ten times worse. All those girls were mad that they got in trouble. So they just treated me worse. In my own opinion, you can't make these other girls like your daughter, and trying to fix it for her would not help. The previous comments about teaching her some coping techniques, or googling cliques and implementing whatever good information you can find there, are definitely good ideas. I would also look into trying to switch classes or looking at some of the other schools around. I had some friends that just went to a school in another district. Their parents felt it was worth the drive. You might also find out if there are any charter schools in the area, and get her on the waiting list for one of them. Most of them have open enrollment about now, and it's a lottery system so if she doesn't get in she would just be on the waiting list until a spot opens up. It might also be a good option to just take her out and home school her until junior high/middle school. I would use that as a last resort, if her grades start to slip or she starts to act depressed. I have some friends who did that as well, and it was a good experience for them. I hope this gets better for her!

We've had talks with my daughter about friends who are still learning how to be a good friend. It helped her to think of it like that. "She's a good person. She just hasn't finished learning how to be a good friend yet."

Let your daughter set up a play date at least once a week. One-on-one time with a friend really firms up their friendship.

We also teach our kids to say stuff like "I don't want to play that game, let's play something else."...."Wow. I can't believe you said that, that was kinda rude." and when someone says "I prolly shouldn't say this..." to respond with, "ok, then don't."

I have three girls and I know this can happen everywhere. If these are the girls your daughter will be in middle school with, I'd move her. I wouldn't move out of the area, but I would switch classes and/or schools. I have a friend who moved her daughter to another school in the district and it is the best thing she could have done for her. Her daughter is now happy and thriving and has many friends.

Best wishes,
L.

J.,
I know that you've received many responses, however I needed to put in my 2 cents. I definitely agree that you will find this situation EVERYWHERE. Please don't move, for her sake. I remember those days all to well, and now I am the mother of three girls (10, 5, and 5 mo.).

Empower them as much as you can, and there are many books out there to help you. Here's just a little piece of wisdom from MY father (who rarely got involved in my drama, but saw me suffering) way back when: He told me, "A., girls and women are like pack of wolves. There will always be the fight to be the top dog. But as soon as one of those wolves gets tired of the fight, they will go off on their own and associate themselves with other wolves and create their own separate group. As soon as the lead dog sees that one of her "pack" has gone to make other "friends" they often join (out of curiosity) and it creates a whole new community...where the offensive wolves will not even be recognized as part of the group." Okay, I hope that makes sense. It stuck with me all of my life and I use it with my girls.

I am happy that your daughter has one good friend. That makes things better. She should concentrate on that friend, ignore the rest, and as soon as they figure out that she doesn't care about them....they will be interested in her. Then it is her choice. She will know who to avoid and who not to.

I hope this helps. I'll be thinking about you. My heart hurts for you and your daughter.

Have you read the book Playground Politics? It is all about the social-emotional adjustments of elementary school, it may have some great ideas (my kids are still preschoolers).

R.