4.5 y.o. Refuses to Go to Sleep.

I agree that he sounds completely exhausted. I know my son was always REALLY hard to get to sleep when he was like that.

This is going to sound off the wall, (and counter-productive) but what about a REAL routine breaker? Being out somewhere WAY later than normal (10-11) where he is interested and engaged and doesn't have the energy or inclination to fight it so hard when he does get home?

It might just snap him back to a good nights sleep without his anxiety, etc. and then you can make a big fuss about it the next day....

Talk to your pediatrician first, but I vote for the melatonin as well. My daughter had many nights where insomnia would not let her sleep. She was only 3.5. The doctor said to take a 3 mg tablet and cut it into 4 pieces, crush it in a spoon and put some water over it. Most kids this age can't take pills. Let him know that it is sleep medicine that his doctor said would help him. Your doctor should be able to help you out on this. He may not need it forever but his body needs to be retrained.

Another thing that may help is a white noise machine. If you can find a sound he finds soothing, it may calm his nerves at bed time. Brookstone sells them and there is one at Collin Creek Mall. If he is able to go to the store with you, you can determine if he likes any of the sounds. You can buy them on line at various retailers as well.

My daughter would lay awake for 2-3 hours and could not fall asleep. She is 11. The doctor said to try Melatonin which she only needed in tiny dose to fall asleep. The tablets came in 3 mg and we cut that into tiny little pie shapes with a razor blade since the 3 mg dose made her still groggy the next day. However, after about a week she would complain of really vivid night mares so we stopped and tried again, and the same thing happened a week later. My daughter has been diagnosed with dyslexia and inattentive ADD. We tried ADD meds which made the falling asleep worse (the thought was that if she is able to pay better attention during the day she will be more engaged in school and more tired at night but the meds are stimulants so she stayed awake even longer). She now takes a sleep aid every night (Clonidine 1 mg) and is under doctor's care. With this sleep aid she will fall asleep about 1 hour after taking it so we give it to her before the evening routine which takes her about an hour due to her inattentive ADD (lots of singing in the mirror with the toothbrush as microphone, and playing with stuff on the counter). However, this did not become an issue until school when she had to be up at a certain time. If she fell asleep late she would also sleep really late in the morning and be happy all day so when she was little I just thought she was a night owl. Before Melatonin we tried Chamomile tea and various other soothing teas from our local health food store but while they were relaxing they were not sleep inducing. I would start a record of bedtime, falling asleep time, nap time, mood, etc. so you have some data when you see the doctor. Good luck, sleep deprivation is so hard to deal with, for the child as well as the parents.

This is so tough since sleep is absolutely critical to the health of body and brain. I gave my daughter some things she could do herslf if she woke in the middle of the night. I also used herbals which the doctor OK-ed like sleepytime tea and Hyland's Insomnia and calms formulas.

Poor kid, she started making native american dream catchers to hang above her bed.

Here is a link you may be interested in:
http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2009/01/sleep-timing-of-...

I cannot be sure which came first, but my child had allergies and the stress from ... sleep?...allergies...? snowballed.

Talk to his pediatrician about this. Our son has ADHD and can't naturally calm his body enough to get to sleep. He takes melatonin every night and has since he was four, on his doctor's advice. You can buy this over the counter. Just be sure to get a doctor's approval. It's natural and just makes you naturally feel drowsy. It's been a godsend. Our son is able to get the sleep he needs now.

Have you tried the very simple and loving experience called co-sleeping? He's having bad dreams - does it matter what they are about? It's obviously harming his standard of life and maybe all he needs is a Mommy who loves him enough to spend a week or 4 of nights sleeping next to her little man who needs her.

What kind of snack does he have before bed?

If it is full of carbs or other sugars it could be part of the issue with him not being able to drop off to sleep. AND, sometimes certain foods can interfere with sleep or contribute to unusual (scary?) dreams.

I never made a "snack" a regular part of our bedtime routine. Teeth brushing is/was though. Usually they would brush their teeth then beg for something to eat (not every night, but when they didn't eat a good dinner for whatever reason)... their snack was a boring piece of string cheese. This might be a once a week thing, maybe less often. Maybe if you address the need for a snack a little earlier in the routine so that he isn't eating RIGHT before bed.
And I agree with Denise.... can you run some grocery store errands after dinner instead of during the day? or SOMETHING so that he is in the car for a bit near bedtime..or maybe even a little AFTER? Take him to a "late" kid's movie? or a minor league baseball game? Something different to alter the routine of getting ready for bed only to be stymied....

oh. One other thing you might try... I see you are in TX where it is surely warm right now. Can you run the a/c fairly low when it is getting closer to bedtime? Snuggling down in the covers helps me drop right off. Anytime I am even SLIGHTLY on the warm side, I can lay awake trying to get comfy... Was the same way as a child. Maybe if you drop the temp in the house he will feel more secure snuggled down in the bed, rather than with just a loose bed sheet or whatever...

gosh, he asks to go to sleep early? and he knows he's tired? he's old enough to be reasoned with, i think. as least w/ my son was at 4. he's tired and miserable because he didn't get enough sleep. if he's asking and he needs it, i would put him down at 6:30 or even 6:00.

I too agree with all of those who have said melatonin. 2 of my kids have gone through this too. I think really it is a stage. I expect to go through it with the younger two too. I am happy to announce that the 6 and 8 year old now sleep thought the night without issue. Really it sounds to me like the issue is not his ability to sleep but staying asleep. Stress of any kind will keep you from sleeping soundly (in his case the anxiety of the nightmare) but not sleeping will make the stress worse. It is a vicious cycle so I would say let him have a nap during the day when he is tired to take the edge of his sad and miserable state. As an adult melatonin totally works for me. My sister and some of my friends give it to their children I haven't. I was that age when I started having nightmares, that to this day I can remember. The night light only worked until I started having dreams that it was a bomb that I couldn't get away from. Waking up disoriented and lost in my room and not being able to find my door. I remember one time when my dad told me to think happy thoughts and I would have happy dreams it worked and was great....until there was a mountain lion chasing me and the other kids that I was playing with through a field of flowers and rainbows. What finally worked for me was being able to go sit in my closet with the light on. Any time I woke up scared I could go in there and read a book and then when I wasn't scared any more I just put myself back to bed. When I was little it was just a picture book that I could make up as I went along as I got older I would sit in my closet and read the red words in my bible.

He could start a club with my 5 year old. He had his bedtime messed up a week ago and we are still trying to get him back on track! Overtired kids are such a pain!

You could try sitting with him until he falls asleep (read a book or something), A car ride around bedtime or at midday when he might nap (but NOT in the late afternoon), teach him to relax each part of his body starting with his toes (progressive relaxation), or soft music. Reading extra stories so he falls asleep while your are still reading may also break the cycle.

Kids this age do have night-mares.
My son is 4.75 and he does too.
But he always tells me what is was about, and then I comfort him, when/if he wakes. Or the next morning. He always remembers it.

To me: it does NOT matter, 'what' their night-mare was about. Because, they had a nightmare. It does not have to be justified or rationalized away or them to be told its nothing.
Because it is literal to them
If your son says he had a night-mare but cannot express the 'details' of it. Fine. Just comfort him.
I tell my son that his night-mares are not real. Its just imagination. Even if it seems real. My son, knows the difference.

Your son does not have to literally express what his dreams were/is. But as long as he knows that he had a night-mare and that you are there for him.

It does scare them.
At this age their cognition and emotions and imaginations, are changing. Per development.

TRY to have him nap.
My son does. He is napping now in fact.
Over-tired kids, have worse sleep and cannot sleep and due to over-tiredness get nightmares.

Your son as you know, is over-tired. Hence his being a "terror" during the day because he is sleep-deprived. This would make anyone, cranky and not themselves.
Don't punish him for it.
BECAUSE.. .it is due to sleep deprivation. He is not himself.

Over-tired kids, have a harder time sleeping and falling asleep and wake more. Because they are not rested and their lack of sleep COMPOUNDS daily and gets more and more magnified... then it results in the child becoming behaviorally... difficult and much more fussy.

When my son has night-mares... he is 'scared' yet feels assured... because, no matter when or what time it is, I console him... and comfort him and even stay up with him, until he is calmed again. I tell him its okay... even grown-ups get nightmares. Its okay. Mommy is here. I know its scary... but it is just pretend. He knows, I am there for him.

1) your son is having nightmares
2) this is normal at this age. From 2 years old and even my 8 year old daughter.. they get night-mares at times. We cannot turn off their imaginations. Night-mares and dreaming is INvoluntary.
Thus, scolding them for it.... is senseless.
3) your son is mega, over-tired and sleep deprived. Hence, his poor behavior... because a young child like this, cannot mood control themselves when they have lack of sleep. Not even some adults can.
4) he IS expressing... that he is 'scared' and had nightmares. He does not have to remember it or every detail of it... to prove it.
Kids get night-time 'fears' at night, and night-mares. My Husband, takes our kids outside in the yard at night, with a flashlight, to 'explain' the noises and shadows at night.
This is childhood.

We have a floor futon on the floor of our room. My kids can go there and sleep anytime if need be or if sick. Its fine. No biggie.
I cried as a child too, when I had nightmares and got real scared. My parents let me. They consoled me.

For my kids what works is: I ACKNOWLEDGE their night-mares and night time fears. I agree with them.
I acknowledge it and them. This fact alone... settles them and makes them feel better. Because they know that Mommy, understands. Instead of explaining it away to them.

You *might* let him, sleep in one of these when he is afraid (a kids' bed or sleep tent):
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=k...
It is real cozy and 'comforting.'
My kids, like theirs.

Also: let him have his own flashlight... to keep IN bed with him
Both my kids have one.
My son is 4.75.
My daughter is 8.75.

I had a friend who had this problem and the dr said the kid was anxious about having nightmares therefore having more.. it got to a point where the doctor actually said to give the kid benadryl (just a normal dose) it ended up working and she only had to do it once because the kid nodded off calm and sleepy and no nightmares, i guess kids have a pretty short term memory about stuff like that once it isn't in their face? Obviously I'm not saying to drug your kid just passing on what I know of a similar situation.

My husband actually went to a therapist as a child. He had MAJOR sleep anxiety because he had convinced himself that going to sleep was painful and that you just didn't remember how bad it hurt the next morning. He would be so scared to sleep that he couldn't quiet his mind and that resulted in being stressed out because he wanted to sleep, you see the cycle here.

I don't have a tip, really, but my husband was only in counseling a few months, until they hit on a mental image for him to walk through if he started to get nervous. For him, since he loved (still loves, actually) pirates, when he started stressing about sleep he would basically "build" a pirate ship in his mind, what it looked like, who was on it, the cargo, the crew, everything, and then sail away....it was an engrossing enough image because it was his favorite topic, that he would get wrapped up in it and forget his anxiety.

I'm not a therapist but I found his story and the solution fascinating. We both use this for ourselves even now when we're having a hard time "turning off" the outside world. Good luck!!!

My daughter started with the nightmares around age 3. she would sleep with the light on (and still has a light with a smaller wattage on all night). For a long time we would allow her to come into our room and sleep on the floor if it was past 4A. A few months ago she moved in with her brother. That has caused a whole new set of sleep issues, mainly for him, but the nightmares have stopped. I know how frustrating this is. Stick with the early bedtime. Let him leave the light on.

When my kids were little, I used to put them in the pool/kiddie pool after dinner/before bath time. Swimming tuckers them out and the bath calms them down. Then it was teeth, stories, sleep.
I have a friend whose youngest is 12. She had to have surgery and they recommended the melatonin at night to help her sleep before and after the surgery -- it worked like magic.
YMMV
LBC

You might try pushing his bed time a little later than 7:00. It's not that he's "refusing" to sleep. Have you ever been picked up, plopped in bed when you're not tired, and been told, "Okay, it's your bed time so you have to fall asleep right now. Go ahead. You have ten minutes." And then the person ordering you to sleep gets pissed off with you because you can't fall asleep since you're not tired yet. Or worse, you're over-tired because you're anxious from having weeks and weeks of laying in bed with anxiety over nightmares so that when you finally do fall asleep you have more nightmares.

Bed time shouldn't be full of anxiety for you or for him. I would ditch the threatening. I would stick with things that are soothing for him and comforting. Be consistent. It can take a few weeks to establish a new bed time routine. You have to be patient. He's not doing this to you, this his happening to him.

Email me for some dietary suggestions, too much to type in here.

There's a chewable melatonin and a spray. The spray is 1 mg. We use it every night for our 4 yr old, and it started the same as your issues. He still fights some nights, but I've learned to give him as much of my time (within reason) at night, as he needs. It seems to work best!