Looking for advice on handling a very bright 4 yo who challenges, questions, debates, and tries to negotiate on practically every decision we make, rule we set, etc. This is about to drive us nuts. We do not want to quash her inquisitive nature, and we realize that questioning is very important to learning. However, we are so very tired of every little thing turning into a debate. Seriously, this happens with anything and everything - teethbrushing, medications, meals, bathtime, going to the park, reading bedtime stories. She always has a reason for why an activity should be postponed, avoided, or altered - and often she has some valid and creative points. It is funny on one hand, but can easily become time consuming and lately has been making us late in the morning for daycare & work. Ever since she really started talking, she has been like this - we used to joke and call her our "little negotiator", but it has significantly increased over the past few months and is really undermining our authority. I don't want to ignore her or resort to the "because I said so" approach, but we are really struggling to get her accept parental decisions. Help please!
Hi Mary,
Parenting classes with a focus on discipline would be helpful.
Contact Kids Priority One at www.kidspriorityone.org
or ###-###-####
Parent education classes at www.chkd.org/classes
Hope this helps. D.
Mary, first of all, I totally sympathize and half-expected my daughter to be drafted by the Oxford debate team before she hit kindgarten. I also understand the dilemma of trying to encourage her curiosity, inquisitiveness and reasoning skills...while somehow maintaining your schedule and your sanity!
When my daughter was four, I too was losing my mind trying to get her out of the house in the morning -- I was impatient and sick to death of discussing every step of the process (I'm not a morning-person). When I caught myself saying things like, "Because I said so!" and "Because I'm your mother!", I realized it was time to find a better solution.
Here's what worked for us -- I made a chart listing the basics for getting ready in the morning which looked something like this:
1) get dressed (clean underwear, uniform, socks)
2) eat breakfast
3) brush teeth
4) brush hair
5) bring mom brush and bow to finish your hair
6) put on shoes
7) congratulations! you are ready for school! If it is before 8 o'clock, you may watch a cartoon until we leave.
She was allowed to complete these tasks in any order she chose. As she completed each task she would run to the refrigerator and check it off the list.
For every day that she completed her tasks without being told or debating or whining about them, she got one point. When she reached X number of points (I can't recall how many) she got to roll a die and win a "prize" -- the prizes were not toys or treats, they were activities, with the number on the die corresponding to the number on the activity list. Something like this:
1) You're the chef! Choose something you would like to bake with Daddy.
2) Artist in residence! Choose an art or craft activity you would like to make with mom.
3) On the town! Choose a museum you would like to visit with Mom and Dad.
Etc.
This worked so insanely well that the transformation was almost magical. Apparently it was all about her feeling "in control", because all the "prizes" we offered were things that we already did with her pretty regularly.
We later added other tasks for bedtime, and so forth. We also added a "bonus" list. This meant that if she scored a point for 30 consecutive days she could roll a die and choose something from the BONUS PRIZE list. These prizes were things like, have two friends sleep over at the same time (not normally allowed). Or take a friend ice skating, etc.
The bonus list was great because by the time she cycled through a couple of months, the morning routine was ingrained (and I think that even she recognized how much more pleasant mornings could be). The chart was retired after a few months.
The beauty of it was that the tasks themselves were non-negotiable and written "in stone" if you will. But the sequence was up to her entirely, thus elimating the need to discuss and analyze the finer policy points regarding whether teeth should be brushed now or in ten minutes.
I don't know if this will help...but I do know that I wished I tried it sooner. Best luck!
You've got to stop negotiating. If you don't stop it now, when she's 13, you'll really have your hands full.
Set rules and stick to them. Have a routine and follow it. Make a chart for her to follow - for example: Get up, get dressed, make bed, breakfast, brush teeth, car, daycare, home, play time, dinner, bath, story, bed.
Don't play into her games. If she asks why she needs to brush her teeth right then, point to the chart, the clock or something that takes the onus off of you. (She's 4 - she'll buy it!) Give her 5 min. warnings and then stick to them. If she's not dressed, she gets in the car not dressed. If she didn't get her ribbons in her hair, oh well...
Consequences... You need to find her currency. If she doesn't get her chores done, she doesn't get to have story/watch tv/whatever she likes best.
It will get worse before it gets better, but if you stick to your guns, it will eventually be great.
YMMV
Hi Mary - our almost 3 year old son started doing alot of that stuff in the last couple months. We were OVER it and decided we were going to work hard on what we call "1st Time Discipline" Which means - I ask/tell you once and that's what's happening. I had to make the change first my owning my power. I'm the authority figure so is Daddy and the Grandparents and that's how it is. I LOVE the Supernanny show and get lots of tips from her. So we just meet him eye to eye and calmly, with authority tell him how it is. And I remind him throughout the day as issues arise that "This is the one time I will tell you and then you can sit Time Out" For him it's working cos we caught it young and he HATES sitting away from his toys. This is hard - I parent differently than I was parented - don't go for the spanking and yet - how do you show them they are respected as little beings without giving them the power of an adult? Well - right now his "currency" is getting to do fun things - later it may be taking a particular toy away or pulling a weekly activity if he resorts to old behavior. Even at 2 3/4 I tell him now that if he chooses a behavior and loses a privilge it's HIS choice. He may not get it now - but heard enough it will have impact when he CAN get it. It's their job right now to see how far they can push the boundaries and we just have to set firm ones and love them through the trials. They really are just "in their own way" asking for us to establish limits and appropriate behavior for them. This too shall pass! Hope that helps!
My son is 4 and the same way- He is wonderful and creative and has great questions but sometimes the timing isn't right for a discusion and other time I don't feel it is right that he questions my authority- We have used the "because I said so" and it doesn't work that great... however he has to know that sometimes if I say "jump" he needs to do it without questioning and then ask later...
We have came to an arrangement that doesn't work perfectly but works a little better then the "because I said so"... but it is still the "because I said so". We say you need to do this... and if he questions you need to do now and we can talk about it later... but you have to follow through and talk about it later to gain their trust in this responce-even if it is only five minutes later once you are situated in the car to daycare, answer her question- it will teach her patience, parental respect and authority and trust... My son knows that we will discuss his questions now, it just sometimes has to be in a minute or two...
Good Luck- It is a process and it takes patience and a good memory on your part so that you build that respect and trust up.
L.
I have a negotiator. We have tried to break to down to 'must do's', explaining what actually has to get done to get on with the day. Everybody has a job and everyone has things to do to take care of themselves. You must brush your teeth in the morning, wash up and get dressed-no questions asked. That way you are READY for anything for the rest of the day. You must clean up after yourself(toys & such for now) no questions asked. Everyone has a job in the home- that's what families do. I found that be setting 'functional & logical' basic living rules- leaves more time for that mind to GO and prompt discussions on so many other exciting things. You just have to remind her that Mommy & Daddy are the smartest people ever and you would never make her do anything that wasn't good for her and YOU make the rules. Time for debating or discussing things can also be set aside at a later time, just not in the moment you asked her to do something.
It is pretty exhausting though, isn't it!?
Mary,
We are in the same boat, maybe our daughters are related?! We have stopped listening to her and I don't allow her to talk to me that way, I put her in her bedroom. My two year old is started to follow her lead and I had to become more strong willed than her! Good luck!
A.
same thing here... i try answering her questions the best i know. when i don't, i say, i don't know but when i find out i will let you know. or i say i don't know, you may want to ask daddy and see if he knows.
she usually tries to negotiate her bedtime. if i say ok it's time for bed, i get the no it's not time yet. i still turn off the tv, start truning off lights etc., and say i will read a book now. meaning, i continue with my thing whether she's resisting or not. she usually lets go of her thing when she sees i am ignoring her 'fighting back.'
no need to stress. at this age they are very defiant. mine was born defiant, she's very strong-willed and inquisitive i think that a remarkable trait that's why i don't squash it but things still need to be done my way.
good luck.
I am in the EXACT same boat. What has really helped is establishing parameters BEFORE you do something and saying that's it. You may have to just put an end to it. Though it may seem a bit harsh to do so, but I found that if I told her if you asked again(after what seems like the 100th time) for the thing or to so something, I'll throw it out, you can't do it or have it, or something like that. At some point she must understand that no does mean no and that you are the parent and she is the child. THe boundaries are going to make her feel secure because that's all she's really doing, pushing boundaries to see where they happen. As you find out what works for you, let me know so I can figure it out.
A.
I have one of those little idea queens as well. It has been so trying since her sister was born too.
We offer two choices and they revolve around what we need to do.. like it's bath time, Do you want to use the elmo bubble bath or the burt's bees? We don't offer up the thing that is a non-negotiable.
It's completely normal for them to be like this btw, they are egocentric by development at this age and when they are smart it adds to the challenge. Be consistent and offer a few choices here and there so they can feel their independence as well.
I think it is normal for them to do this at this age my oldest is 4/04 too and her favorite phase lately is "I can't." This is usually is said when I have asked her to do any one of the normal before bed routines. However, if a treat is involved she'll bowl you over to get it done. I think she is still trying to figure out boundries and how far they can by pushed. I have had many of the same battles and have won most but not all because I also love her determination. I feel awful when she ends up in tears but putting the choclate into the milk last doesn't make it taste any different. So she either drinks it or I give it to her sister. Sometimes you just have to let them be mad or frustrated at you to be "The Mom."
L. SAHM to 3 girls 4, 2 and 4 months
I'm going to dare to say she's perfectly normal! You just have to remain firm and make sure there are consequences.
I don't think I can say it better than Ladybug C.
When my 4 1/2 yr old dawdles over dinner, that means she doesn't get to play in the bath. Sorry there's no time now! When she plays around instead of getting her toothbrush ready after the bath, she cuts into story time. Usually just the threat of no story (or whatever) will get her moving. But you have to mean it and she has to know you mean it! If you do have to serve a consequence, she will fuss and cry over it, guaranteed. Just kinda shrug and say well, I told you we were going to run out of time. It up to you to do what I tell when I tell you to do it.
Good luck!
S. Kav
Your daughter sounds like an absolutely perfectly normal 4 year old. My 5 1/2 year old son is the same way and has been ever since he started talking at 18m. On one hand while it can be extremely frustrating when all you're trying to do is give a bath and go to bed, it's also very rewarding when so many people comment on how intelligent he is. I guess you kinda have to take the good with the annoying sometimes... I always say at least he's not cursing at us like our neighbor's (newly) 5 year old! Good luck to you.
K. - SAHM of 2 boys, 5 and 2
Hi Mary. I have a 4 1/2 yr old. I know what you are feeling. I do not know what to do with her. My son was so easy going at that age. If you find something that works please post it. I'm sure there is alot of moms who want to know about it. Good luck to you.
C.
Although you don't have to say "because I said so!", you do have to be consistently firm about the the things that have to be done. I recommend to try and avoid getting caught up in her questioning (my son, who's now 5 1/2, was and is very good at hooking me in!!) Although I'm not a big fan of using threats, sometimes little ones help to move my kids along--"Let's hurry and finish up our toothbrushing so we'll have time to read BOTH books!" Using distraction can be helpful too--so your child doesn't even remember about getting into the testing mode!--I may have little races with my kids or have them brush their stuffed animal's teeth--I like this approach because the kids' minds get caught up with the play activity, while at the same time they accomplish the task at hand.
Hi, Mary - I hope I'm wrong, but it sounds like Oppositional Defiant Disorder - ODD. My 24 year old daughter had (has?) it - what a a challenge she was to raise!!! Yes, you need to control her will without breaking her spirit. You may want to seek professinoal advice. Stick to your guns and make sure she knows you are boss. The only upside is that when she becomes a teenager, you will have already established the fact that you mean what you say and that she will be held accountable for her actions. Good luck! Let me know if you want to talk - I feel your pain! N. B.
P.S. My daughter is an awesome young wowan - happy, healthy, and self-sufficient. Her strong will serves her well as an adult! :) NB
My daughter was born 4/04 too. Sounds like they should meet -they sound exactly the same!! I find it very useful to have my daughter to come up against a child who is just like her so she can't always get her way. I see her be "bossy" with other kids, so we talk a lot about what it is to be a good friend and what it takes for other kids to want to play with her.
She is really a very nice little girl, loving, nurturing, but she is a master negotiator and very persistent. We have quashed fits and temper tantrums easily, but her new favorite expressions are "No, I won't do that" and "You stop it" when we ask her to do something or discipline her. Basically we pick our battles - some things are not negotiable - and sometimes I just say "Because Mommy said so." But I only do this in the context of past discussions about: "I let you make lots of decisions and choices [and we do], so when I make a decision for you, it is because I have a good reason and you have to trust me." Since lying and truth are also becoming issues in our house, talking about trust is a useful concept. She has a 4 month old baby sister now and sometimes I have to make it very clear that I am the Mommy, not her, and I get to make the rules/decisions for the baby. (And she is a big girl and gets to hav emore choices of her own, etc.).
I let her negotiate sometimes, but she must always be NICE and not just REPEAT herself or WHINE. Sometimes I just let her talk a blue streak and then say,"Yes, I understand, but that's not what we are doing today." Sometimes I think she just wants to be heard regardless of the outcome. And sometimes I do let her win, "Okay, that is a good point, and you can do that." But that means when she does not win, that she has to cooperate.
I don't know if that helps or was just me empathizing. I don't think you are doing anything wrong - just stand your ground when you need to and let her have her own voice when it doen't matter, as long as she is nice and not bullying you or someone else. I think she is being normal, and it is probably good that she is not a pushover - as long as she learns to compromise and not be a bully.
Have fun!
I am sorry to hear that your in this boat BUT I'm glad to hear that I am not the only one!!! My 4 1/2 year old has recently became the negiotator of the year!! And defiant...she has always been strong willed but lately she just pushes me to the limits. I am trying to squash this before it becomes a huge problem, but I also want her to know that we do value her input. (Just not on EVERYTHING!!)
I started taking things away that are important to her when she refuses to listen and it seems to be working! I wish you the best luck!!! :)
Hi Mary,
I have a 3year old little girl, and it sounds like she could be your daughters twin sister:). I'm sorry that I don't have any advice, but my husband and I are in the same boat! It's very exhausting..... Where are you from? T.
