2 And 3 Year Olds Won't Listen Unless You Yell at Them?

In my humble opinion I truly feel as though, given their ages, this is quite possibly a phase. I have a 2 in a half yr old and find myself in the same situation. The other day in fact I had to chase the little booger down a long drive way and thankfully caught her right as she got to the road. My husband even commented once that whenever he saw a family and the children had "leashes" attached to their wrist, he always thought that was cruel but now he understands why they use them. With children so close in age and young I think it will be a struggle. As parents we do what we can, they will learn just as you will. Lots of love, paitence and consistancy is really all you can do. Hang in there and good for you for being such a proactive parent.

look into Love and Logic. They even have a wab site.
www.loveandlogic.com

This has been wonderful for us.
My husband always called me snoopy's teacher. wawawawa

I was always nagging (he called it). Hefelt that it was so often that the boys were just tuning me out.

Good luck,

It's very important to get a handle on it now. It could be very dangerous for them. It also will help to make the teenage years better.

I'm no saint, as I yell at my kids more than I'd like, but I've found that counting to 3 or counting to 5 (whatever you choose, 10 even) works wonders. You tell them that if they don't do "x" (or don't stop doing "x" as the case may be) by the time you're done counting to 5 then they will have a time out or you will take away the toy or whatever the consequence will be. Then you count. If you get to 5 and they haven't done as you ask you follow through with the consequence. Do this when you've asked 2 or 3 times already and they're not responding to you. Pretty quickly they will understand that when you say "stop doing that" and you start counting you mean business and they also know exactly how quickly they need to stop. It won't always work... Sometimes they'll still ignore you and you'll have to physically intervene, but for most situations this works well and it does not cause a scene.

Kids do what you train them to do and you have trained them to come when you yell. If you want to train them to come when you call, and to do it the first time, try practicing at home before you go out.

What I did was to tell my boys that we were going to practice "coming when mom calls", but they wouldn't know when, just sometime in the morning. After a short time, I'd call and if it took too long or more than one try, I'd say, hey, run back upstairs and we will try it again while I count how many seconds you take. They got hugs and applause for a speedy response. Then I'd make them run up and down the stairs a few more times to "practice" their great performance. We treated this as sort of a game, a challenge for my boys to see if could respond so quickly that I'd be blown away. Then it helped for me to be dramatic and make a big fuss over how fast they were. My boys did not realize they were being "trained". But it soon became a habit and they came right away when I called.

The nice thing about training that the more you train, the less you need to discipline. Plus, there were times when my child was about to run into the street or another danger and all I had to do was call out "Stop, come here sweetie" and he would turn around and run back to me.

As long as your children know that they can wait until you yell without any real consequences besides the fact that you are yelling, they will. If you really only want to say it once, then tell your children you are only going to say things once in a calm voice, and if they don't immediatley listen and obey, then a consequence is going to happen. Make sure they know exactly what the consequence will be. Some people work well with naughty chairs/time outs. What has worked really well for us, is taking away my son's favorite posessions for a "time-out" period. What you need to figure out is what your child values the most. Could be a snack, a toy, a blanket, a special priviledge, TV time, etc. Think of several things, as I'm sure they will lose several before responding.

When they do listen and obey the first time, give them lots and lots of praise. You may want to think of a postive reward system as well. What has worked well for us, is using a coin system to buy back the favorite possesion lost. We give him a plastic coin everytime he does it right (i.e. listens the first time), and he saves them in a special box, and when he earned a certain amount, he can buy the toy, blanket, etc. back with his coins he's earned. When they have bought back everything, you can get them some dollar toys or something, and then they can earn those with thier coins. My son is 3, and finds this highly motivating.

Hope you find something that works. Just remember, the days can be long, but the years are short. Enjoy it all.

I've had several in this age range at the same time. The hardest but most efective was, say it once. After it is said one time then back it up imeadatly. It feels harsh but think about how it will be when you want to go out with them and do fun things. There is a time when you have to grab a face to get them to listen and it feels awful to do so in public. As for the store and parking lots I required the kids to grab a pocket. They could look around but had a hold of me and I could feel their little hands. If you feel that hand move it is time for an all stop, the hand goes back on the pocket or it's action! Still, say it one time.
Try to time your trips during slow times or smaller places until you can get the kids to follow along. Something your wife may find is that after she has said it once it takes until she gets there for them to stop. Follow through anyway with "I told you no, now this is what will happen". It's hard when they are that age! I hope this is helpful!

M.,

I have yet to see a mans name here at mamasource, but hey you have to admitt it's a great resource, so welcome.

About the kids... Yes, this is a phase sort of speaking, however it is not one of those things you should just let your children grow out of. Your children are screaming for guidelines on how they need to live their lives. Instead of creaming back, makes some rules and plan how you will deal with it if and when they refuse to follow them and do the same thing every time no matter what.

I would sit down alone with your wife and talk about how you two are going to parent together. Set the rules of the house and how things should be when going places like the park or restaurant. Once you've established this make sure if one parent tells the children how they need to behave the other should support their choice and if they have a problem with it talk about this later alone with them. The kids need to see mom and dad are together with their standards.

Children at this age are screaming for direction and they will constantly test their parents to see what they think about their issues or choices. They rely on the parents, but in your case they want you to decide all the time without taking any responsibility for their actions. You need to set the rules and then expect them to be on their best behavior. This means that they are learning and may fall short of these expectations, but only you know if they are on their best behavior and meaning trying to do the best they can under the circumstances.

Also, setting rules doesn't mean that you are not listening to your kids. It does mean you have rules, and there are actions that are taken to enforce them. It also means you can follow up with these actions with letting them know how to do the things they want to do correctly. For example, after you have taken action when they jump on the couch and they understand are following the rules you can let them know you noticed that they are really good at jumping and you wondered if they would like a jump rope for outside? When they are older you can talk about when it is okay to be in the street while playing, such as if both parents are present and you are playing basketball with them on a quiet street.

Anyway, I wish you and your family the best.
G.

Yelling is never a good idea. It tells everyone around you, including your children, that you have reached the point of frustration. I too was a yeller, for a while. I rationalized that if I could get my children to behave by raising my voice, then the situation wouldn't escalate.
#1) You are the parent. You can completely control the situation, or not. Yelling is not controlling the situation.

#2) The fact that you are focused on your school work and your wife is physically limited doesn't help. Make sure you both have what you need spiritually, emotionally, and physically to deal with 2 and 3 year olds. That is a very difficult age.

#3) Make sure everything that they shouldn't be into is not available. Put things up high, lock cabinets, or GET IT OUT OF THE HOUSE. If you don't want them to have access to "bad food" get rid of it. This age is when you really have to live your example. You must be able to tell your children to do as you do and not just as you say. Your children will respond, in kind. Trust me.

#4) While I don't think parents should have to explain everything to a child, sometimes children learn better with a little explanation.

#5) Remember, to make time for them, one-on-one. You can recapture their hearts, and that is half the battle. Then, they will not want to disappoint you, or misbehave.

Boy,I feel for you guys. I have a 6 yr old and a 2.5 yr old and my first one was really good at listening. So it is totally a shock that the second one is exactly like yours. I have the same fears of running in front of cars and dangerous situations that you do.

Let me know if you find a sure fire answer, but until then, I have done 3 things: 1) talk less, so that every word out of my mouth is heard. I hate to be an "audio track" that is running in the background. When I get ignored, we resort to 2) Offering to do it "now and correctly" or "the hard way", which is often useful, but the only way to cure the running in the street thing, is to 3) Have a tone of voice that only comes out in scarry situations. The less you use it, the more effective it is.

Also important: praise every time they do something right and the first time. Our most frequent praise is "good listening" and "good words!" And they emulate you, so if they see you not listening to them the first time they say something, they will most likely be the same way, and visa versa.

Best of luck!

Hi M., it looks like you already made the habit and they are waiting until you start yelling. You need to approach everything in totally different manner. They are old enough to learn consequences, so start telling them things in calm voice and if they do not listen just punished them (take away privileges, treats, TV time, time out, leave the play-ground and etc.) To give them a chance to correct theirs behavior like telling them what is going to happen if they don't listen and than count to five. If there isn't any effect just apply the punishment right away. If you let them carry on even a minute longer you lost the case. Be ready to leave the play-ground even if you just got there, to get them back in the car and head back home even if you don't feel like. The action should be taken imideatly! When you apply the punishment make sure that is something that will happen right away. If you tell them that if they won't stop now tomorrow they won't watch TV the case is lost. For example you can you can say: "If you don't stop throwing sand at your sister we will have to leave the play ground. We are here to have fun and this is not fun." and do it. When you get in the car explain with calm voice why you had to leave and stay calm. Don't let them involve you in barging deals. Say: "I can see that you are upset, because you really wanted to stay longer, but we couldn't because... We can try again tomorrow." And that's it, no more discussion. They will get the message. Even if it is just one of the kids, you still have to do it. Soon they will get the message that even if one of them is misbehaving, they both have to pay. It is not fair, but in your situation you have no choice. You can price the good kid at home with letting her to do something she would like. Teach them simple words, so they can express theirs feelings and acknowledge them. If you are consistent it will take about a week before you start to see the results. Good luck!

I just want to repeat what someone else wrote: read LOVE AND LOGIC! Good Luck.

With my kids(both are now teens(oldest graduates this month(he's also my step-son)& the youngest is a freshman), it was just a matter of following through. I do realize they are young, but get down to their level, they can't come up to your level of understanding, so you have to go to their's. Then it's a matter of giving the warning & then following through with the consequnces, should it occur. Be consistant, you don't have to yell just be firm. A punishment could be to take away a certain toy they really like, or time outs. But consistancy, is the most important, that means in following through, & the type of punishment.

Children are very smart. They learn very quickly at what level mom is serious. Unfortunately for you, your children have been conditioned NOT to listen until mom yells. Then they know she means business. Parenting takes a LOT of patience and hands on. Yelling especially at children that young is harmful. Eventually even the yelling will get tuned out by the kids. When my children were young, I had to do a lot of teaching. If you don't want them to take the cushions off the couch (for example) then when they do, you calmly go over, tell them to help you put them back on the couch, and let them know that if they remove them again, they will be put in time out or whatever you do dicipline wise. They will learn after a while, that you are consistent and mean it. Remember time out is age appropriate...1 min. per year old. Seems short time to you, but to a 3 yo. it's a LONG time. They always need a warning......unless it's dangerous, at which point you may have to pick them up or take them quickly out of the situation. You mentioned your wife's limited mobility. I am not sure what you mean? Is she injured? If your children are ones to run out ahead of you in public, I suggest a harness. May sound mean, but it's safe and it's not going to emotionally injure them like yelling will. There are also tons of parenting books, and parenting classes available if you want more in depth ideas for alternatives.

Hey M., I just learned why we have to yell to get their attention....apparently the side of the brain that comprehends words and the side that comprehends sound are two different sides, and at those ages they easily tune out sound, or maybe it is just disobedience, I don't know! But, I was told that if you make a loud noise like clapping or a whistle, it amazingly snaps them to attention, as it is the other side of the brain. I have been doing this now for awhile and it works great!

I have a three year old and an almost two year old. I find often when I catch myself yelling a lot in a day if I calm down and start getting down to eye level with them and almost whispering what I want and why I want it I get a much better response from them. On top of that when we're out in public and I see my kids doing something dangerous (like walking into traffic) I can use my big scary yell and they respond right away, because its very different from the way I usually talk to them. My oldest usually comes back in tears because "Mommy used a scary voice, and scared me so much."

Not to delve too much into your problem your having because really I don't know that much about it, but it sounds like there might be some mistaken behavior going on and some negative reinforcement. Really cannot stress how much almost whispering to my kids has changed the way our days go.

I usa ASL signs in public, you only need a few and once your child learns them, (and the consequence of not responding when they are used) life is wonderful, you can yell (just a stronger sign, to a simple "no" sign, you can get a book from a library, but better yet you can attend an ASL meeting they are every weekend in most cities and they would love for you to attend.
I have 4 kids and the two older kids (18 & 21) liked ASL so much both took it all through high school and now oldest is an asl translator, my youngest is on the austic spectrum and signs as well (mostly food drink, behaviour,& such)
I rarely have to yell...
hope that is something to think about.
H.

There are many good responses here... Speak in a calm, firm voice, make sure they know what their boundaries and consequences are, and be consistent with the follow-through if they don't listen or obey. Toddlers are smart and love to act naughty when they know it means more attention from their parents - even if it's negative attention. Make sure to catch them being good, and give them lots of positive attention for desired behaviors. I would suggest watching "Supernanny", going to a Love & Logic seminar, or reading Positive Discipline for your Preschooler. I've done all three (and taken teaching classes on behavior management.) They've all really helped me with setting boundaries and following through with my own little ones. Good luck!

I have one 3 yr old and a 1 yr old. I have definately had to yell at my 3 yr old a lot, but then I figured out that I was teaching him not to listen to me untill I raised my voice. When I asked the moms on here what to do they recomended the love and logic books. IT HAS HELPED A TON! I got one cheap on Amazon.com. Time outs have also been a pretty effective tool. Good luck

I think it's great a Daddy is asking for advice!
I have 2 sons 12 and 6 years of age. My 12 year old, I rarely had to raise my voice to him to listen to me, he obeyed, he stayed near me at stores, and held my hand in parking lots.
My 6 year old is a VERY stubborn red headed little boy. I mention the red head because I feel it brings me extra challenges as a mom. When he learned to walk, he was soon running. I would raise my voice/yell before he would hear me to do something, to go somewhere-however, if I whispered ice cream or treats, he came bolting out from where ever he was. He wouldn't respond when I called out to him (his brother always did). He never would hold my hand in parking lots. I had to make sure I had all of my things together before I could get him out of the car, beause he would run or take off.
Some things I do that have helped me.

1. If they continue to not listen after your wife calls for them-have her start counting to 3, and being that you have 2 that are close in age (one child may be obedient while the other child is not)-have her say "Michael 1-Michael 2-Michael 3! After I count to three, my son will get a time out, the toy he's playing with taken away for the rest of the day, no T.V. previledges, no whatever works for you.

2. Parking Lots, shopping, or general outtings in public. I purchased a leash. It's a harness that straps onto thier body and velcros in the back-so they can't get to it. And then, it has a leash. You can find them in the child safety section, where they sell latches, doorknob things, etc. I used to buy mine at Target, in the kids section. They are soft nylon, so it won't harm them at all. It worked great, and I rarely got "those" looks or stares from other people. The older ladies (grandmas and great-grandmas) would tell me what a great idea it was. In the 3 years I used it-I only got I negative comment, from a gal in her mid 30's-who didn't have any kids, and who thought she was educated in all things (she piped up to tell me she was getting her masters in child psychology, and how cruel it was). I asked if she had any children, and she replied "no". I then told her real life was alot different than textbooks. I don't use the leash now, but I threaten to bring it out when he's out of line.

I don't want to say this is a phase. I still struggle with my son, it's easier, but it's still a struggle. He behaves better for my husband (which drives me nuts). I guess what I have to say is to be firmer with them. When I start counting, my son knows I mean business, and he tells me to stop counting, and I tell him to stop whatever he's doing. Every child is different. But, the leash thing is a good idea-especially if they have tendencies to take off.

Good Luck!

Oh my I feel your pain and scary thoughts of what can happen.
I don't know what your wife's limited abilities are but I have used the That is 1, 2, 3 method for small things like touching things they are not suppose to but for running out in the middle of the street or parking lot put a leash on them and keep them close. Or keep them in the shopping cart. This is the hardest part of being a parent and keeping your cool with them. Instead of yelling get up and tell them NO!! and put them in a sit down time out. If they will not sit in a courner then make them sit in your lap. Just a min or two is long enough for their ages. I know it will take a lot of getting up and making them learn what they need to learn but it is better for all of you in the long run.

I now only have to say that is 2 with my boys 11 and 8 and they know I have had enough. I normally don't say one any more because of the ages they are. I go directly to the middle to show them I am serious about what they are doing.

I can give you more on the 1, 2, 3 method if you write back but it will take a lot of calm, getting up and down, and being firm on what you are wanting them to do.

Parenting is not easy but it is time to get a hold of their ganging up on you before they get to much older because then it will be harder for you to keep up with them.

I can tell you they do start to mellow out after they start school.

Good luck and hopefully some of my advice is going to help.

A. C.

Hi M.,
A little bit about me. I'm 43 and have worked with children for 26 years and I am now a mother of 5 year old twins.
Do you two, your wife and you like to read? I think the approaches that they use in Love and Logic would be something you could access imediatly. Though I don't know what it is that is preventing your wife from being mobile? It would require physically removing them, until they become conditioned to respect just your verbal command. Are you all in Oregon?
There is a lot of steps to help you with what you all are struggling with. More than my fingers could possibly type. BUt I hear the immediacy with which you all are seeking advice.
Do you have the means to have someone come into the home, assess your situation and coach you in the moment?
The love and logic book I would get is Love and Logic magic for early childhood.
Hang in there, it doesn't have to stay this way and with your interest in getting support and willingness, things will change, but it does take time.
Mary

Hi. I raised 6 so I have a few ideas. When it comes to active toddlers in public places, it can be very scarey. They are so fast and distracted so easily. There are safety harnessess that look like cute little back packs. Its a lot of work, but of course you have to anticipate their every move. The harness, in traffic or crowds, puts your mind at ease. They get used tot he tones of your voice, so the luder you get, the less they hear you. There used to be an old saying, "talk softly and carry a big stick." Time outs are great. One miniute for every year(age of the child). You will be fine. I hope this helps. God bless.

Hi M.,
The Love and Logic class is very helpful. We went to a 10 week class (one eve a week) and took home LOTS and LOTS of realistic tactics and ideas. www.enjoyparentingagain.com is Michael Gorsline's website. He is a Love and logic class teacher and parent coach. We learned that many parents are in the same boat, struggling to find footing in the parent child relationship. If a class is too much, get the Love and Logic Lifesaver CD pack which as 4 CD's that cover topics humorously and helpfully. Another unrelated parenting DVD that is worth watching is "Hold On To Your Kids". WOW! This one was a real eye opener with a rich perspective worth considering.

Remember you're in good company, and hooray to you for seeking more information to improve your parenting skills!!

Jen T

This is a difficult age if your kids have already become head strong and your wife has limited mobility.

A couple of suggestions for nap time. If they sleep in different rooms--put one of those sliding locks higher than your kids can reach but within your wife's reach. This will do a couple of things. It will give the sleeping one time to sleep the full time and the awake one time to have one-on-one time with one of you.

About the yelling. I would begin by offering a treat or something special in a normal voice. The one who listens gets the treat. You would have to plan this carefully--so that they would have a high probably of hearing you. Do it in a normal voice. Slowly transition to disciple. And watch your voice.

Don't yell, except for things like running in the parking lot.
Remember If you want someone to listen, whisper.

If they can't walk beside you without running in the road, then you should find a different solution. I finally had to get one of those leash things--what a relief!.

I also made my toddlers hold onto the car until I was ready to go.

If your kids start throwing the sofa pillows pick the pillows that have been thrown and put them away. Keep just enough for you and your wife.

Have a corner that they can be removed to when they misbehave, (but they are to young to stay yet)is helpful.

This is indeed just a phase. But it sets the tone for the rest of your involvement with them. This for tells the teenage years.

M.,
I feel for you and your wife. When our boys were the same ages, we went through the same exact stuff. I also remember when my sister's kids were that age and she literally said to me - "Why do I have to yell to get anyone to listen to me!"
Our boys are 3yrs a part. Ages 5 & 7 and they are still up to no good.
You're correct on the phenomenon. All kids go through the same stuff at those ages. Just wait until 5yrs. that's when farting, burping and body parts are the daily topic.
The solution that worked for us was to over praise and distract. Our youngest is the tough, stubborn one. If he is screaming in the car I say, "Oh my gosh did you see that!" 99% of the time he will stop and say "Where, what?" Then I tell him it was a cool bird or leaf zipping across the front of the car. When they are doing something naughty like eating junk food vs. healthy food, I take away the junk and give suggestions on what good foods they can have first. If they scream, we chase and tickle. (Great distraction and way to avoid tantrums, even now.) My husband says,"Oh, did I hear somebody wants kisses?" He will say this a few times, and by then the boys are laughing. Then he goes over to them and starts kissing on the neck near the ear while tickling with his facial whiskers and making sounds like cookie monster eating cookies. Mum, Mum, Mum.
Sometimes I have a difficult time with our boys because I'm home alone with them all week long. I get frustrated and yell too. We all go through it, it's just easier for some.
As far as the running out in parking lots, etc. so normal. You just have to keep a close watch on them. We have always told our boys while holding them back that it's a SAFETY issue. They understand the word safety and that makes things easier than going through a long drawn out speech about getting hit by a car and going to the hospital. After the first three words, they tune out.
It's difficult to manage kids but you have to have patience and persistence.
Saying, "Hey, what cha doin' over there" is a great starter. Using kid language (simple words, small sentences, kid friendly voices) works and getting your kids to identify their feelings. (Angry, sad, happy, frustrated.) "Did you throw that toy because you were angry?" Help them to put words with their feelings and actions. Most kids get frustrated at this age because they can't identify what they are feeling.
You are doing a great job. Just have patience things take time.

Thank you for asking this question. I have a two yr old girl that I feel doesn't listen to me and I hate yelling at kid, but have been finding myself doing it with her. We are starting to go out in public places where her listening to me immediately is nessasary for her safety as it is for your kids. I am thankful for the 26 pages of advice you generated and am looking forward to enjoying my sweet girl even more. Thank you and good luck with your angels.

I highly recommend you read Parenting with Love and Logic! As with anything regarding parenting, you do have to be consistent but if you can, it could be totally worth it!

Best wishes,

T.
www.MomHome4Good.com
www.SaferIsBetter.com/tamijb

Reward them when they do what they are supposed to do, and ignore them (extinguish behaviour) when they don't. I have used charts with stickers for my girls, and like Supernanny I have had various charts and rules printed out for them to read.

I have a list printed down the left side which says what it is they are supposed to do. Then throughout the rest of the chart is a table, which you can put dates in. Then they are given stickers for everything they did the FIRST time, or you can reward them with quarter, and then give them a big reward (such as MacDonalds) when they were good for an entire week.

I myself HATE shouting at my kids. My husband does it, but I prefer to work in other ways. then, when they DON't do what they should, they can't play with friends, they can't play computer, they are not allowed to watch TV. All of that has to be earned. Nothing is given for free. No toys, no entertainment. Occasionally I'll give them something just because I want to, but usually, bad behaviour get nothing, good behaviour gets rewards.

Hi M.,

I can sure empathize with yours and your wife's situation, as my oldest two kids sure put me through the paces during their toddler years--they're 17 mos. apart.

Once, I *lost* my son in a Kmart. I looked away for 30 seconds, and he just vanished. I was terrified! He came strolling in the front door of the store what seemed like forever later, when in fact it was probably only a couple minutes(I have no clue, really. It really seemed like forever but I was scared to death that he'd been taken), but let me tell you, that was one of the most frightening things I've ever experienced as a mother. The others were when he fell out of a cart and onto a concrete floor, and the time he swallowed a nickel. Taught myself the Heimlich for that one lol.

They were both constantly getting into things(condiment war, perfume and make-up testing), taking off out the front door(caught them all the way down by mailboxes one time), eating cat food, whole rolls of paper and sometimes toys in the toilet, dresser diving onto the bed(they made stairs out of drawers to get to the top), oh the list is endless.

My point is that yes, this is more than likely a phase, and you will wonder how any of you survived it.

I suggest child proofing as best you can, and then doing it again when you think you're done. And someone else mentioned leashes--get TWO of them, especially for malls/shopping and times when you will be dealing with traffic. I got wrist tethers for my kids, but now they have these cute little backpack ones. Let your kids pick out the ones they like.

For naps, put up a baby gate to block the hall so that the one not sleeping can't go down there and wake the other. If you only block the door, they can go to the door and bang on it, but at the end of the hall, they're further away.

The couch cushions, try taking them off the couch first, and see what they do. Sometimes, stumping them really helps. Sometimes you have to get really creative at beating them at their own game, so if *you* take them off first, and hide them, they'll move on to something else.

When they're doing something you don't want them to do, give them something to do that you *do* want them to do. Some of the colors that won't mark on anything but the special paper, a book, a new toy, something to divert them.

It was mentioned several times that consistency and follow-through is the key, and it is, and I liked one mom's approach of hands on both sides of the face and forcing them to look at you when you use a calm, but firm voice when you need to get their attention. Also, fewer words. That way when you *have* to yell in emergencies, it gets their attention.

It will take some trial and error to find what works with your kids, but realize this is a phase, and they'll grow out of it.

Good luck to you both, and hang in there!

K. W

First, what is limiting your wifes mobility?
I find that speaking very quietly instead of the yelling will get a better response. Of course you would have to begin using this technique at home & in smaller places. If possible, naps in separate rooms. Have you tried 1-2 and no 3? When they know a nose in the corner is going to happen, not might happen,it makes a difference. Hope your days & nights get better. They will be in highschool before you know it.
Auntie C.

Consequences! For example, "You take the cushion off the couch again and you will not be allowed to sit on the couch today." Then FOLLOW THROUGH! It will take effort and getting up to do what you have said will be the consequence for the undesired behavior, but after mom and dad do what they say a few times, they will know you mean business. In public, bring a stroller for sure. If they start to run in the street or run away from you, tell them they will have to be in the stroller if they don't stay by you. Good Luck! T. B

Oh! Take the 1-2-3 Magic parenting class - or find the DVD if they don't offer it in your area.
It has worked GREAT on my kids (they are 4 & 5). And people are impressed by how quickly they react to me when I use it.

Hi M.,

I highly recommend you check out loveandlogic.com I have found the strategies to work very well in teaching, parenting, and frankly any relationship. The basic strategies provide a way to set up your environment for success. There is some info on line and then there are books, tapes, and seminars. Once you have the basic principals you can apply them to a lot of different settings.

Hope that helps.

C.

Talk soft so the children have to stop to listen to you. Speak in a positive way telling them what you want done. Example, Morgan I love to see how kind you are by helping mommy put the cushions on the couch correctly. Example, Morgan, you will put the cushion on the couch correctly. Saying no, don't do that! What does that mean? If you say no don't take the cushions off, the kids only hear negative talk. The kids really only listen to the last few words you say, take the cushions off. Then you get more angry, they don't understand and from no where Dad blows up. It takes time to change patterned behavoir and they will push harder at first. Continue with structure and postive behavoir and you will aee a change. I also use what I call the box and when the kids respond in the behavior I am looking for I let them choose from the box of prizes. Prizes don't have to be expensive I have 10 cents items, go on a walk with mom, or make cookies, get a ice cream with dad. Sometimes i have different boxes for different levels of prizes. Always give expextations up front and no more than 1-3 to earn the prize.

My husband and I talked with our boys and as a family decided what the punishment would be so they would know their punishment if they were told not to do something, heard us, and did it anyway. We ask the child to stop once, making sure they make eye contact and answer back (say okay) so we know that they heard us. If they continue to do what we asked them not to do, we get an object(wooden spoon, board, shoe) and lightly swat the child once on the bottom. After the punishment we hold our child and let him know we love him and that is why we cannot allow him to do what he was doing. Try not to yell. Yelling makes your child afraid of you and later they will lose respect for you. They will start yelling also. As far as the situation with the child running into the road, the only way you can get his attention is by yelling his name. Try to prevent these situations by teaching safety first. I know we can't prevent all situations, but hopefully we can greatly reduce them by teaching our children to listen our voice the first time. I hope you find a solution that works for you and your family soon.:)

K.

Yes, you are right about trying a new tactic since this one isn't working for you. Please read the Discipline with Love & Logic books by Drs. Foster Kline & Jim Fay. If you read them or watch the videos or listen to their books on tape, you will find such simple ideas to make the needed changes.
It sounds like your very smart kids have found what they can get away with. The book will help you both with these situations. If you raise your voices constantly, kids will not be able to differentiate it from extreme danger warnings. The books have many great examples to help you. Good luck!
ps. most libraries have these books

Hi M.,

I do have a different tactic that might be of assistance to you and your wife. It will take a little time, but is effective. 1st pick your battles, find which issue you must change first and foremost that is not dangerous. Then when you decide, for example that eating something unhealthy for them is not an option. Let them each know in a quiet and clam manner that this behavior is not acceptable and any time they disregard the rules they will receive a time out, a naughty chair, whatever you find acceptable, and be consistent! Children feel less stressed when they have consistency. Once you have established that rule consistently, move on to the next one, i.e. sofas on the cushions. They will develop a habit of listening without yelling and in the event of an emergency they will stop dead in their tracks at you raising your voice. This method protects their self esteem and your sanity simultaneously. You and your wife owe this to yourselves and your children.

Best of luck and please let us know how it goes!
T. Nelson CD

We have a three year old and a 16 month old. And the same problem more so with the older one but he is rubbing off more and more on his lilttle brother. He think I am joking when i talk to him calmly and yelling really does no good either. We have tried time outs with both of them and really they do no good getting through to them either. When it comes to being outin public and them running we had to resort to buying these monkey back-pack things that the tail is the leash...We have had mixed emotions from people on them I have had women come up to me and thank me for being responsible for my kids by keeping them near me and i have had moms say how wrong it is to have them on leashes...My feelings are at least I know my children are not running a muck around the store and driving everyone nuts! I have learned too that when they acted out and wont listen it is for a few reasons..One they are really tired and need naps...two they are looking for attention and they dont care if it good attention or you yelling at them. And three they are trying to express something to you that they cant really put to words..even three years have trouble getting there points across sometimes. You just have to find a way to get through to them that works for both your wife and you and is effective other then yelling. It may take time and alot of nerves and energy but it will work. you may find as they get older too they will slowly grow out of this too...good luck!!

Welcome to the club! lol..
Mine are 3 and 4.. I was happy you posted. I read the responses and think I'll try a few.

We do have one thing we are allowed to yell, or loudly speak we say, "stop your feet!" and they do.. or we play a game called Freeze. so when we're out and about my kids know that when I say "FREEZE" they do it. and sometimes when we are somewhere that they can run we say "GO!"

My brother taught me something also that works for his daughter. he says "Alright Hailey, ready for teamwork? we're a team and we are going to work together!!" he psyches her all up and she is excited to listen to him in public.

My kids ran all the time at 2 and 3 at the store and I just quit taking them with me and I told him that was the reason why. I would take them periodically and told him if they ran away from me at the store they weren't going the next time. So now.. at 3 and 4 we have a talk before going to the store.

We talk about having walking feet and not running away. The other day we went to target for a backpack for my son, and they wanted helmets too. We left without either. They did not listen in the store so I told them, sorry. Next time you must walk next to me.

I think I have also scred them about cars. they won't go into a street at all. However the parking lot is a different story. it is strange.

Keep up the good work! one more year I say... it will get better!!

I have also been telling my dauther I only want to tell her things one time. so when I am about to yell I look at her and say How many times do you want me to say it? she knows that If i have to ask her more than once she'll be in a time out. So she quickly says "once" and stops. She's 4 though.
We're still working on that with my 3 year old son.

It's good if you can set your house up (child proof) so that there isn't anything accessible they can hurt. Then you don't have to say "no" all day, which they become desensitized to and eventually don't hear at all. My boys get hours a day of entertainment out of the couch pillows, which is a good sign of active imaginations. They are required to put the couch back together when they are done.

When in public and they are trying to do something unsafe (run into the street) I use the word "Stop!" They hear it because it isn't "no", and they do stop. You have to save that word for such occasions so it doesn't become tuned out as well. We use a leash/harness on the two-year-old in public (zoo, children's museum, etc). You can find them at Fred Meyer, target (I think) babies r us, etc.

I know it can be very difficult, but it's a good idea to decide what things really matter, and what things are a waste of time trying to stop around the house. It might drive you up the wall for them to tear the sofa apart all the time, but it is good for them in a lot of ways (talk about using their muscles and expending energy and developing gross motor control, with big safe objects).

Some of this I got from reading the book Making the Terrible Twos Terrific by John Rosemond. He is fantastic, and teaches that you need to not be focused on the kids all day; they need to be focused on you and hanging on your every word to get their needs met. Otherwise, they are out of control, don't listen, are spoiled, etc. It's a work in progress in my home, but we are getting there. Rosemond has even suggested putting an old mattress in the bedroom of active children to jump on to their hearts content. My boys sometimes jump on their (old, cheap) beds for hours in the evening (when they are supposed to be going to sleep). I don't like it, but maybe they need to expend that energy - and, they have to put their beds back together, and they are in their room and out of my hair. You have to pick your battles and think if this is the hill you would die on.

Also, it probably sounds terrible, but we have the door knob turned around on their door so we can lock them in when it is absolutely time for bed or a time out. I am not interested in chasing them back in all evening, or physically holding them in place for a time out. (The five-year-old doesn't need it now, but the two-year-old wouldn't stay put for anything). And, if you really want to get the point across and make an impression on them, it needs to be a real time out, like an hour. Of course the room must be safe (window locks, safe blind cords, etc.) If they trash the room while in there, they probably have too many toys, and the toys should be kept somewhere else. They will start paying attention when they learn that the consequence of not doing so is spending a long boring hour alone in the bedroom. And, it saves your nerves because the tantrum or whatever is out of your face. If there is a reason they must go to sleep (rather than jump for hours on the bed) then I sometimes unscrew the light bulb (or if you have a fan/light fixture, just turn it off with the pull cord). They go to bed then, since there isn't much to do when you can't see.

Again, I really recommend that book to get some control. It is an entertaining, enlightening read. He has many other books, and a website at www.rosemond.com Good luck! I feel for you!

You need to get down to their level, make sure they are looking at you, and tell them what the rules are and what is expected. They are old enough to learn what the rules are and the consequences of not listening are. If you need extra help, you can always get a friend or someone to stop by and see how they can help. You also might see if someone in your area would give you and your wife a break once in a while.

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My mother yelled at my sister and I CONSTANTLY while we were growing up. All it really did was eventually lead to a pit in my stomach and fear (physical force was usually threatened). When I was a teenager my mother had two more children and I watched her yell at them as much as she did with us. I learned that at that age yelling really doesn't do any good. You end up yelling more and louder as the children desensitize to it. As a result of this experience I have watched my cousin, who never yells, very carefully to figure out what she does. When her children misbehave she "asks" them to stop once. If they dont' stop she walks over to them and tells them again. If that doesn't work she physically stops them and they get a time out which she religeously enforces (the real key, I think). The biggest thing that she does differently is that she is absolutely consistent about what the rules are and what the consequences are. My daughter is only 5 months old now and I hope I can be as consistant as she is. Also....she is almost never angry when she has these altercations. She is as Cesar Milan would say, calm assertive. It takes time, don't get discouraged. As far as getting your wife to change behavior, you'll have to rely on your expertise as a psychiatrist to figure that one out:-)

I second the 1-2-3 Magic as a great model for parents with children of this age...you might even find it at you local library...It is age appropraite and when used as instructed, is very effective. Good Luck.

It sounds like they've been groomed to "blow you off" until you really mean it.

My wife and I are in a habit of only asking one time and then correcting the situation with a smile. We try and keep the "monkey" on their back without yelling or getting upset.

If our kids don't respond after one time being asked, they often lose a priveledge, take a timeout or (in the case of my son 7 who wrestles) he gets pushups. We try and do this with a smile or at worst neutral approach. This again puts the onus on them to comply.

AB (Seattle)

Hello M.,

I did this too when my children were young. It seemed to be the only way to get their attention and stop the behavior (temporarily that is).

One day when they were a couple of years older, I realized that I couldn't yell loud enough because as they got older I had to yell louder and louder. I reached my max and knew I had to find another way.

I then remembered my Aunt. She never yelled at her children. She would raise her eye brow and they new that enough was enough.

I couldn't raise only one eye brow, so I used a "pssst" sound and followed up with normal tone of voice, and time outs or taking toys away if needed.

Imagine their surprise on our first day! I could tell by the looks on their faces that they expected the typical yelling as their warning sign of exactly what kind of punishment was going to come next.

Those looks surprised me too. It reminded me of how I would know exactly what my babies needed based on what kind of cry they made, but reversed.

It was a very interesting, light bulb moment.

It didn't take long for them and I to turn around. I thought it would be too physically demanding on me, but it really wasn't because they still would act up, and I still used the same follow up.

The difference was, I would "psstt" and they would snap to attention because they would have to look at my face to see how serious I was. Facial expressions are a powerful thing.

My children are grown now, and I hadn't yelled at them since they were 4 & 6. My oldest son has almost finished his 5 years in the Navy and my Daughter has a beautiful 9mo. old baby boy.

My Grandson is too young for yelling at ofcourse, but I am curious to see if my Daughter adopts her own way of getting her childs attention without yelling.

I hope you find this helpful.

Best wishes!

K.

When you are out going places,you don't have to scream at them you just pick them up and carry them that's how it is or put them in there stroller and put seatbelts, when you are out walking on the streets or malls.. they are very curious and they will do everything, that's how they learn from thier own mistakes or you need to talk to them so they won't get hurt or hold them with your loving arms... don't give them food that is not good for them... and well you can't take a nap when no one is watching them... at there age they don't know what is right from wrong.. you need to have a lot of patience with them and maybe take some parenting class.. that would be good for you guys..

"Train up a child in the way he/she should go; even when he/she is old he will not depart from it." ~Proverbs 22:6
The verse alway works if parents sets a good exmple and prayers works.. all the time.. God bless! M.

I have a 2 yr old son and we have had some of the same issues, over the past 6 months we have tried many approaches from yelling to timeout to walking away (only if we're at home and it's safe to do this). I have found that it's an independence thing, he's trying to have some control, so I give him choices. I will ask him politely to do what I ask first, if that doesn't work I then give him a choice. I tell him, "mommy's gonna give you a choice, you can stop hitting your sister with that toy and play nice or mommy's gonna take it and you have to find another toy to play with." This way he feels like he's in control by making a decision and he still gets to play, almost like there's no punishment, but I still get my way as well, he stops hitting or he loses the toy. As for dangerous situations like running into the street, I tell him before we get out of the car what going to happen. "When we get out you NEED to hold mommy's hand and walk with me." I then remind him again as soon as we're out of the car, this way he's already had a heads up and knows what to expect, he's not just getting yelled at. This also works at bedtime, we count down from 10 mins before bed and remind him we'll pick out a book and it's time to get ready for bed, that way there are no surprises when it's time to get to sleep.
hope this helps, sorry I didn't have a more brief answer, but I totally empathize with you.

People may see it as "wrong", which is why it fell out of style, but "child leashes", in your public situation, seems appropriate. In you're private situation, these children are not too young to learn to be "put in the corner". I guess nowadays they call it a "time out". Whatever you want to call it, it seems the children need it. Is it a phase? Maybe. They're testing their limits, to see what they can get away with. Or what they can gain. Do you promise rewards if they'll be good, when they start acting up in public? Right NOW, they are the BOSS! Unless YOU set limits! MAKE them "sit in the corner, and take a time out" when they misbehave!

I am a sahm of three young children myself and I used to have to do the same thing until I was told a little secret.... I was told don't holler at them start taking away there privelages, it was a wonderful secret and it really works. My children are 5, 3 and 15months and they are all girls. When I mention taking away a toy, playtime or outing they pay attention and listen. Good Luck.

I didn't read all the responses you got, but if no one mentioned the book "The Happiest Toddler On The Block" you might pick that up... it's written by a pediatrician and has lots of interesting insight and tactics (with examples) for how to handle situations. Good luck!

2 and 3 years olds are very stubborn. You put it perfectly when you said that when they get it in their heads that they will just do it. This age takes a ton of patience! One thing they need is expectations. In the house, tell them what is expected of them. This will have to be one step at a time, such as when they are at dinner, tell them what is expected of them at the table. Before they go down for a nap, tell them what is expected of them when they wake up. When you go somewhere, tell them what is expected. Use positive, specific directions, such as "Stay by my side." and "Hold my hand." If you tell them things like "Don't run out into the street, they have to use their creative little minds to decide what TO do. Be specific and keep it simple. The second thing is to have a consequence for certain things you don't want them to do. For example: "If you run away from Daddy while we are out, then _________________. What did Daddy say?" Make sure they can repeat it, so you know they heard it, and that they understood it. 2 and 3 year olds are a lot smarter than we give them credit for, but they are still too young to have common sense. We have to teach them. Good luck! I know this is only a little of what can be done, but yelling at them will NOT help! They will tune you out quicker than a tick on a clock.
Oh, yeah- one more thing: the consequence must be administered immediately or it loses its value. The older they get, the longer you can wait, but until they are at least 10, it will need to happen right away after the undesirable behavior.