15 Yo Good Kid in Public, But . . .

I'm in the middle of reading a book called "How to Raise Kids You Want to Keep" and even half way through I could see how this could be a really helpful book.

Dear M.,

At first I thought you were talking about my son. You are not alone!!! I have noticed that respect for fathers in general is SO low. I have even started commenting on it to my husband regarding the shows we watch. It seems like every single one of them makes the husband/father look like a complete idiot. I am so sick of it that I quit watching shows. What ever happened to respecting the father? Unfortunately this I found bled over into our family for a while. I noticed I was not showing my husband the respect he deserved. I started to set an example for my son and it has helped a bit.

I also took my son aside and had a long talk with him about the respect he is trying to earn and to earn that he has to also give it. Our son like yours is a 4.0, has a job and volunteers for a couple of charities. We all know he is smarter in math than we are. I did convince him to cut us a break since it has been 25 years since we had to do trig and algebra etc. He now gets it when you don't use it you forget it. I also pointed out things that he can respect his father and myself on. Things have gotten better, but he is a teenager. I try to remember how I was back than (oh, so long ago) and remind him that we are still his family and providers, and no matter what he needs to be respectful. Point out to him how wrong our society is by letting this happen in the name of entertainment.

Maybe even talk with your husband about it. Try reading the book "The Love She Desires, and the Respect He Desperately Needs." It really helped my husband and me.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

J.

I don't remember who I learned this from (some councelor on a talk show) & it was meant for teens but I started applying it w/ my then toddler(now have 2 & works great).It is also very easy language for ALL to use.Example:Son, you need to clean up your room before the football game.This is required & if YOU choose not to, WE will fully respect YOUR decision not to go to the game. The entire point is to put it back on them as their choice that you will fully respect.When they start to argue you respond in a calm, polite voice that this is what needs to be done & the choice is theirs (emphasizing that you will RESPECT their decision to go or not to go to the game).The person used the story of his daughter & the family car & curfew.When she was late he repeated several times how they(Mom & he) fully respected HER decision NOT to drive the family car since she had decided not to follow the rules.Most important thing for you & husband is making concrete decions & NOT bending even if other things must be altred, rescheduled, etc. You comprimise, he wins! Good luck.

Its a good sign that your son can do well outside of the home. This means something good has been instilled from the homefront. I noticed he has older siblings - it could be that he is (unknowingly) pushing for his independence. But, if you want for him to be able to be successful as an adult, he will have to understand respect in the home. Otherwise he will not be able to have good relationships with whomever he lives with in the future. You must explain this to your husband. Be careful to pick your battles wisely, some things aren't worth fighting for - and others you just can't ignore. Use your gut to guide you there - you'll find its not wrong too often. To ease some of the tension between you - remember he is a young adult - allow him to have his space, give him a more adult responsibility at home, brag a bit on something he's good at in front of him to others. (All tactics I have used for my son.) You'll get a great result from place emphasis on what he can do!

There are some great ideas in a book called Love & Logic for Teens. One of the first tips is not to sucked into arguing with a teen. Simply go "brain dead" and repeat over & over again...."I love you too much too argue". Your son has learned that if argues long enough with you, he'll be able to manipulate the situation and get his way. When you first start this he'll escalate, but hold firm and he'll eventually get tired of your "I love you too much to argue" and stop battling.

Then you need to start saying "I'll be happy to do the things I do for you when I feel treated with respect". So when he asks for a ride to his friends, you respond "I'll be happy to do the things I do for you when I feel treated with respect". When his clothes aren't washed, when there are no of his favorite snacks in the house, etc He'll complain and you respond "I'll be happy to do the things I do for you when I feel treated with respect".

We spend two whole class periods on both these topics and I have so many parents that see results. So I urge you to get tapes, videos from the library, or buy the Teen Package from www.loveandlogic.com or better yet, take a Love & Logic class. My next one starts April 11th - more details at www.shellymoorman.com

Good luck. He's a good kid and good kids come around quickly with just a little bit of work!

I'm sort of on your husband's side. Your daughter should stay out of it and you're going to have to be patient.

That said, I really sympathize with you! I was a divorced working mother who had not had serious problems with my children, until when my boy and girl were between the ages of 14 and 16. They were AWFUL! I wanted to leave home! I cried myself to sleep a lot because they were so unpleasant. I also could see that, like your son, they knew how to behave and were doing fine everywhere except in the house. I had a wise friend who said, "There's nothing you can do that will change their behavior toward you. It's not what you do or say, it's who you are--their mother. They are working on finding their own standards and they're pretty bad at it. Some day they will surprise you." And they did! They are now in their forties, are wonderful parents and friends with me and each other. I wish I had said something like, "I know you are a really good and talented person whom I'm very proud of, but I absolutely hate the way you are treating me these days, even though I know it's not unusual for kids your age to behave like you do. Maybe you can't help it right now, but I can't help hating it, either. So don't be surprised if I just walk away from time to time." I'd do it, too! I'd probably take my daughter with me---visit friends, take a walk, get some ice cream, get a manicure, window shop. Just get away from the jerk! I hope your husband gives you sympathy,comfort and some fun activities from time to time to make the toughing it out less tough.

You are fortunate your husband wants to be patient with your son. He is a wise man. I am a 56 year old grandmother, and mother of 8. We had a son who sounds a lot like yours, and I (kindly) referred to him as "our biggest challenge." Another son was just as frustrated as we were (possibly like your daughter is), and through fighting and yelling and struggling, a wedge was placed deep between the two brothers and the boy and his father. I am not saying that I didn't get frustrated and add to the contention, trying to MAKE him be responsible, respectful, thoughtful, caring, etc., but I DID try to talk with him (NOT during the "heat" of the situation), letting him know that we did love him and care about him and wanted what was best for him. I was not so sure it helped at the time, but now I have no doubt. This troubled young man needed love, and needed to know that somebody cared about him. I worried how he would turn out and fervently prayed for him.

My husband and I are both educators. There is a great deal of anxiety experienced by a 4.0 student--pressure to keep it up, pressure to live up to many demands and expectations, pressure to perform...whether it comes from teachers, peers, parents, or from within the young man himself. No doubt he will respond to love and attempts to reason with him (again, NOT during the "heat" of the situation).

I must tell you that our son is now a father himself. His son is only a one-year-old. He a GOOD father, and a GOOD husband, and wants what is best for his family. I have a good relationship with him and I know that he knows that he was loved, even through the hard times.

I chuckle now, not disrespectfully, at your description of your son causing contention, by purposely "annoying, interrupting, (making) shrill whistling or whatever he can do." Because that is PRECISELY what our son would do. It's almost endearing now (the memory). Your son is crying out for attention, for whatever reason, whether it be positive or negative.

I am not suggesting you allow your son to be abusive, but perhaps you can invite either his friends or yours, or relatives, someone he respects, into your home--often. If he is so different "within the walls" of your home, than he is in public, make sure other people are in your home.
However, our son did not go as far as not speaking to his father for so long, though he did threaten to. That's when I worked hard to help him see the good in his father--not that he listened then. I'm not suggesting you do what I did, except to pray, if you believe in that power. I know I was clueless what to do at the time, and prayer would sustain and guide me. But I do suggest you LOVE your son (not that you don't) and make sure he knows it (communicate that in specific words).

One last thing: don't allow your son's behavior to cause a wedge between you and your husband. Your son needs both of you together on this, even if that means being patient. He doesn't really realize what he's doing. FACT: adolescent brains are not completely developed until approximately age 25.

Good luck and I'll be praying for you!

Hi M., I also have a 19 year old son who can be quite disrespectful. He went to the School of Mines last sememster and dropped out. My husband is a recovering alcoholic and is in a treatment center. I have been a single married parent for a number of years. Derek, my son, lost a lot of respect for his dad and blames him for all the hardships we've had. We are currently living with his grandparents, my inlaws. My father-in-law is almost 80 and he thinks we've been to soft on him. He is setting up rules and chores. Derek cannot play any games on his computer or stay in bed after 10AM. I was always afraid that if I really pushed Derek to help and threatened to take away privleges, that he would leave or sabotage his grades to spite me. Well, he has started to conform and is going back to college in the fall. I think some tough love is needed with your son. My thoughts and prayers will be with you. T.

Just like a little kid, he feels safe to "act out" at home. He's under a ton of pressure at school. That age is stressful.

We have an "us against them" policy at our house. Basically it means that we support each other because life outside can be too hard if you don't have a good support system. We need home to be a safe place emotionally and physically.

Your son is smart. Take him out to lunch or something - just the two of you. Tell him you have a problem and want to ask for his advice. Plan out what you'll say ahead of time. IMPORTANT: only say it once, then listen. even if you think he's not understanding, don't repeat yourself or try to explain it in a better way. You'll lose him unless you keep it short. Something like:

"I've been really impressed with how well your handle yourself at school. Most people can't keep a 4.0 gpa. You're doing a great job and I'm really proud of you. I'm a little concerned about how you treat people at home, though. I love you very much, but I also love your father and your sister. It makes me feel sad when you guys are disrespectful to each other. I've tried lots of different things, but nothing's worked...and I wondered if you could help me come up w/ some new ideas that'll actually work.

Like with cleaning - We all help mess up the house...so we all need to help clean it. I have such a hard time getting you to do your chores. I wondered if there was some way I could ask that you'd respond to better. Like - instead of asking you to clean your room, what if i just make a list of stuff I need you to do...and put it on the fridge. Then if you could take care of atleast 3 items on the list by the end of the week. And I won't bug you about the list and you'll just take care of it by the end of the week..and cross them off when they're done. Would that be better for you? or is there something else we could try?

You're really smart. I'm hoping you can help me figure out how to address these issues so that we're all happy. I need certain things from you, but how we get there is pliable."

sorry, i'm rambling. If he doesn't have any ideas on the spot say, "that's ok...I kinda sprung this on you. will you please think about it and I'll ask you again in a couple days?...cool. ok, let's talk about something else then ;)"

make sure you follow up a few days later. Again, your role should be listening. The ideas need to come from him. "have you thought about what we talked about? because I really need you to clean up the mess in the bathroom but i'm not sure how to ask you to do it w/out causing a fight..and I really don't want to fight w/ you."

Support his ideas if they're workable. Smile at him more and give him hugs if you guys do hugs. Be sure to thank him and really mean it.

Share this experience with your husband, but not with your daughter.

Keep in mind, the whole car/driving thing is coming up. If he doesn't respond to anything else, he should respond to that.--esp when it comes to talking to his father.

You and your husband need to be on the same page 100%. First and foremost if a child doesn't have boundaries at home it will leak out in social situations. If he has no respect for you, then it is time he learns how to respect you and your husband. Your husband is dreaming if he thinks a fifteen year old will "come around". Go hard core on him, losing all priviledges and earning them back with respect and compliance. Something I am learning is that in order for a child to argue (which I found myself doing with my six year old already) then you have to be a participant. Stop arguing with him, be matter of fact even posting the house rules for him to see, if he doesn't comply, then no TV, no Computer, No activities, No IPODS, NOTHING until he EARNS THEM BACK. With my daughter I am battling some disrespect and feel like I am failing, I decided I am teaching her to argue because I find myself debating with her at every turn. I am not doing it anymore and trying to retrain myself in just that here are the rules, it isn't up for discussion and if you don't do what you are suppose to when asked, then there you go...first offense is this, then so on. She can just either stop and deal with her consequences or end up with all her priviledges taken away. It is hard, but your husband has to understand he is enabling his son to be disrespectful and it has to stop.
It is great your 18 year old is back you up, but she isn't the parent but your son's example moreso. Talk to your husband get a game plan and implement it together so your son knows now it is unacceptable and he is responsible for his own actions. It will be doing him a huge favor as when he gets into the real world, disrespect is not going to be okay and he has to comply whether he likes it or not sometimes.
Good luck.

I believe dad is a huge reason as to why your son is acting this way. He's acting this way because he can, because dad is scared to stand up to him and lay some ground rules down. You two have to stand together against him, sit him down and talk to him and let him know what is expected and the consequences if he doesn't follow the rules. He will end up a mess if you don't do something quickly.
Talk to your husband first, then call a family meeting and talk everything out, see how that goes.
Good luck

I had a 5 year old who was wonderful and charming and helpful in public, but when she got home she was beastly to me - acting defiant, irritating, several tentrums every day over the slightest thing. She was emotionally and physically exhausting. Then she started acting that way with her dad. So I did some research online. I took a written test for her having/being ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). She isn't - but if she acted that way with all authority figures she would be. So, this led me to a book called 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child: The Breakthrough Program for Overcoming Your Child's Difficult Behavior, by Jeffrey Bernstein and it really helped. It's focus is not so much on the child as it is on the parents and how you view and treat your child. Kids like mine, and possibly yours, see things a bit differently and this helped me see my daughter in a new light. Your son surely is going through a defiant stage and this book might help you cope with it. It really, really helped me. Just shifting the way I though about her helped me change my behavior just the slightest and she began treating us like she does the rest of the world. Of course she regresses, but that is because my husband and I are slacking off.
Let me know if this helps.
b.

What baffles me is that your husband is the one who your son won't talk to and yet your husband is the one basically backing up your son and letting him get away with everything. What is going on that your husband is okay with being so openly put down?

I would also like to say that I agree with what Tyra, I think, said about telling him what is required and what the consequences are if he doesn't and that you'll gladly respect his choice, which ever choice he makes. I would take it a step further though and say that if he can't respect his things then whatever he chooses to not take care of will be taken away. I agree with Dr. Phil when he says that you are only required to love, feed, clothe, and house your children and if they can't respect their or your things then all they need is a mattress a blanket, some clothes and basic food. If you take away what they value then they will do what they have to to get it back. Figure out what your son values and then set conditions on his getting those things. I wouldn't take everything away at once but go in increments until you start to get through to him that you and your husband are in charge not him.

Good luck.

I have absolutely no experience on this matter. However, logic tells me that you and your husband need to sit down and talk. He needs to be on the same page with you. Once he is on the same page with you some strict rules and consequences (no drivers license (or no rides to where he wants to go if he doesn't respect you), no sports, groundings) need to be set into place. As far as where to go from there I hope someone with experience will be able to help you out.

Take away the phone, computer, television, wii, driving...whatever. He needs to earn them by respecting his family members. You and your husband need to be on the same page. He needs to support you in this. It isn't a phase. It will continue to get worse. Find his currency and use it to your advantage. My older brother didn't get his license until 2 months before he turned 18 because of this issue. It took a while for him to realize my parents were serious. The rest of us (6 others) all learned from his example of how not to behave, and also learned my parents were serious.

Are you sure you don't have my know 15 year old DD? I had the same problems with her about a year ago, and the final straw for me was when she jumped out of the car at a busy stop light all because I wouldn't let her do something (i have no clue what it was know)but yet all her teachers adore her, her friends think she is fun, and adults thought she was amazing, but in the house was hell. That was until I took everything from her she got 2 outfits, the old ones not the ones we just bought for school, a pillow, and a blanket, no sheets, MP3, computer, t.v anything that wasn't a necessity was gone, I knew if I didn't get it under control it would be to late, it took a good month before I started to see improvement and then over the next 6 months, I think, she earned stuff back it made a huge difference in her, she is still mouthy at times but it is more in line with what is normal for teens and not so over the top anymore. You have to convince your husband to get on board, he has to see just how distructive your sons behaviour is, and the fact that your DD is standing up for you should have been the slap in the face your husband needed, but some men have a hard time seeng what is in front of your face, your DD is 18 and if she wants to stand up for mom then her voice should be heard, it doesn't mean you have to do what she suggest. Good luck!!!!!!!

15 is the age when about any kid I've heard of needs to be locked in their room for a year. They do get over it and there were a number of reasonable suggestions in the previous responses. Just keep reminding yourself that all 15 year olds are similar and it will get better - eventually. Mine were horrible and now they are a pleasure to be around, it was just the worst year we had.

Good luck, and patience helps

it's hard trying to raise a child when you and your husband are in disagreement on how to do it. Have you tried becoming you kid's best friend? Take him places that interest him. Show him that you have a brain. Allow him to talk to you about anything. When you come to points of arguing, calmly tell him how you feel and why what he is doing hurts or bothers you. When you realize you might be wrong, apologize. Always tell him you love him.

Definitely you and your husband need to get on the same page about this. Sounds like it's time for a date night! Well, a night out for just the two of you where you can discuss the issue virtually uninterrupted by family requirements. Figure out where you both stand and come to some kind of agreement on how to handle the situation. It sounds to me like you both have different opinions about it, but neither of you understand the other's point of view. Also, your son sounds pretty smart. And if he likes to argue, try signing him up for the debate team at school. It may provide an outlet for his need to disagree or play "devil's advocate." As far as not doing what he's asked to do, he needs to lose privileges for disobedience. This may be something that needs discussing between parents, but there needs to be some kind of consequence for his disrespect at home. It's NOT going to just go away, and he's NOT going to "come around" eventually. Some action needs taken. Good luck with things.

Sounds like a typical 15 year old boy to me. I would make sure that your daughter knows that she is not a parent and has no rold in parenting your younger children. I speak from experience on this one. I am the oldest of five kids and was one of those know-it-all kids. As I got older I started taking a more parental role to some of the younger kids because my mom went back to work. It was really difficult at first to have an appropriate adult relationship with those siblings once we were all grown up. I still felt like I had to parent them.

As far as your son goes, you & your husband need to have a sit-down discussion together first and decide what is appropriate behavior in your home and how you are going to deal with inappropriate behavior. You have to be united and firm together. Then kindly and appropriately let your son know what is and is not acceptable in your home. Stick to your consequences. At that age I was a complete snot to my parents. I really regret it now, but I had such a sassy mouth. Especially to my mom. I turned out pretty good and my mom is now my very best friend. Good luck to you!

My son now is 21 and has moved out for the second time this time with his girlfriend now has a baby son of his own??? he also had alot of attitude when he lived at home he has issues with his bio father we divorced when he was 3 and I have been a common-law relationship for 18 yrs. now and he also seems to have problems with his step dad?? I think it stems back to his own dad they are not close and way to much alike..but he has generally been very good to me he is a mama's boy he said I am the only parent he has so ...but he did get better with his attitude closer to 20 my other half says he is lazy and boys these days just don't want to learn anything like about cars etc.....but so far he is very good to his girlfriend and baby he even stays up at nite when the lil guy won't sleep I am proud of him for manning up!! but the rest of the family is still hesitant about how long will this last?? he even works out of town to make the money to support them which he would never have done before we tried getting him to go to the oil patch but he always said no it is out of town and i won't do it but look at him now...I believe (Ihave 4 children ) that when you said he behaves so well in public he has his morals and values that you taught him at a young age and he will always have them..as for family they just like to bug and annoy everyone, they think they are funny when some times they are not and don't realize they have hurt someones feelings, I always pointed that out to my son when that happened and he apologized..good luck it will all work out:) also me and my otherhalf have argued over this for many years we were very seldom on the same page but it does help if you are together on this and have a united front and some for you to lean on when times to get rough..:)

It is so common for parents to have different disagreements about parenting and how discipline should be done. You are not weird or wrong to feel this way. You and your husband came from different homes where different kinds of "discipline" were used.

Remember that discipline doesn't mean punishment. They are not synonymous. In fact punishment is a small appendage of discipline and if it is used too frequently it is much less effective.

The place to begin is with your husband. You and he HAVE to be together on it. There are community classes (like held by Jordan School District in the evening) that address issues like this. Some of those classes are free. I would recommend starting with something like that TOGETHER.

If your husband's very concerned with fighting than help him understand that the fighting won't stop until the two of you come to some agreements concerning discipline. Ask him to come to an agreement with that you will try not to raise your voice and he will try to work with you on "redefining" how you both TOGETHER parent in your house. (Every couple has to redefine or sharpen and hone their parenting together as their children reach different ages and stages in their lives.) Try discussing this by writing things down on paper (both of you on your own paper either at the same time or at separate times) so you can really define how you each feel. What do you and he see as the biggest problem (concerning your son or parenting or discipline)? The next biggest? The third biggest? Write those down. Give yourselves a time limit (we will only discuss this for 30 minutes since its a heated topic) and then nurture your marriage relationship with weekly date nights and shared hobbies while you are "redefining" discipline the way you and your husband do it (TOGETHER).

Hope this helps.

I wish I could say I knew how to help! Instead I have to say, I understand!! I have an 11 yr old son who is the same way. He is great whenever anyone else is around, but the minute it is just our family he is rude, disrespectful yells and screams at me and won't do anything he is asked to do. I too, am seeing problems develop with my husband because of the constant conflict with my son. I have tried all kinds of programs love-n-logic, parent rules, etc and nothing has seemed to make much of a difference, sometimes I just feel like a failure as a mother. I'm glad you have a daughter to help support you! I don't know if it helps at all, but just know you are not alone. Maybe someone will have an idea to help us both! Good Luck!!!

'love and logic'...I just finished this course...amazing! Just look it up on the web and it will explain itself! Good luck.

My only advise is that you HAVE to be on the same page as your husband. This may cause your relationship to strech a little, it might be uncomfortable, but if you want to keep your kid out of trouble, he has to see that you are a consistent united front. And may I be bold to also suggest that getting on your knees is prayer isn't a bad idea either :)Praying for you :)

family therapy, beginning today

I have recently come across this part of life in my studies. Your husband is partly right. It is a phase, some start earlier and last longer than others. I'm not saying its easy and I do heartily agre with you about discipline being necessary.
My sister-in-law who is 12 y/o. Is a holy terror she is so disrespectful I don't even like her coming to our house. She is coming to stay with us for two weks this summer and I talked to mother-in-law, who I love to death, and said she's not coming unless I can discipline her. She agreed and so did her dad.
You see the slacker kids at certain jobs and are totally disrepspectful? That will be your son unless something is done now. You need to point that out to your husband. Is your son more snotty with you than your husband? It could escalate to physical violence. It happened to my sister and her son is only 12.
I would crack down as hard as I could. Is tehre someone you can talk to with your husband to perhaps give you some more guidance? A counselor or friend or religious leader?
Good luck, I know I am trying with Emy.