When to Involve School Counselor?

I am a psychologist and I work in schools. Most schools have a zero tolerance policy toward bullying and other behaviors that can be viewed as possibly harmful towards other students. It is the responsibility of parents and teachers to be proactive and report any of these behaviors to administrators, preferably the principal who will then intervene or reach out to someone on the mental health staff.

We were oddly involved in a very similar situation. My daughter's lunch was moved to the middle of the table by another student. When who moved it, the girl said she did it. My DD asked where she was suppose to eat and the girl told her, "By me". When she went to sit down, she said, "But I'm saving it for X". So my daughter got to eat lunch at the end of the table by herself.

So, I told my daughter that the pushing her around will come to an end. I told her now that she knows they will move her lunch, don't leave it. If they touch it, tell them to keep their hands to themselves and hold on to it. If they tell her to move, say no. My daughter hates school confrontation, but is very capable of taking care of herself.

After drop off, I saw the principal and stopped by to talk to him. That afternoon, my daughter said he talked to them all and everyone but one girl is playing nice again.

This is not quite middle school, however, I do think it has a lot to do with the time of year and all of them starting to get sick of each other.

In my view, I could care less if they like my daughter. I try to teach her it is much better to play by herself or read a book than to follow behind some bossy little girl. Moving her lunch after she has put it down, crosses the line. You can't get away with that as an adult, so why do it in school.

your daughter's group has already done exactly what i would suggest- move to their own table and refuse to share space with Mean Girls.
why is there any need for further action?
khairete
S.

Stay out of it. This isn't a situation that requires a parent to contact the school. Childhood is the time to test your skills and your daughter is doing a good job handling this on her own.

At this age, the girls need to learn to advocate for themselves. As much as you want to be involved, I urge you not to be. All kids, but one might argue girls in particular, need to learn to speak up and not get walked on. They have to learn the difference between "telling on" someone, and holding people accountable to the rules.

I think the best approach is to get kids to approach a counselor, not to "tell on" but to find ways to get a neutral arbiter. Going to a counselor and saying, "How can we bridge the gap?" or "How can we work a compromise?" is a start of developing leadership skills. Girls who learn to speak up for themselves at 14 may not get talked into stuff by guys at 17, or taken advantage of by employers at 23, you know?

Help her brainstorm this without giving her answers.

A school counselor does not need to be called for someone moving tables. Your daughter can either say no, or move, or say, "I'll move if you ask me politely." I don't see why "popular" or other groups sitting together should be described as "battle lines." Even when we are adults, we typically sit together with our friends. This is a non-issue.

They already handled it one way - they moved.
Another way to handle it would be to say "No" if they are asked to move.
"No" is a complete sentence and sometimes it is an appropriate response.

Listen with a sympathetic ear when your daughter tells you this stuff but stay out of it.

I feel for you J.! It is h*** o* a mom when a daughter is having to deal with girls who are being exclusive. I don't think I'd go to the school though and I'd let the girls sort it out. I think it is great that your daughter is open with you about what is going on. I'd keep listening and talking about ways to handle it. Unfortunately she will be faced with this kind of BS for years to come. This will give her a chance to develop the skills to manage it. I'd be curious her internal dialogue about this. Hopefully she is not beating herself up inside for not being accepted by this clique. I'd ask her about that and encourage her to not use these types of girl dynamics as a measuring stick for her self worth! Blessings!

I know as a mom, it is SO hard to sit back, watch and listen to your child.

Please, let them work this out on their own. At this point, they are trying to get a pecking order.

It sucks to watch it as a mom and keep our mouth shut!! Just listen and be there for your girl.

Time to let your daughter sort things out for herself. The "popular" girls are seen for what they are by the adults at the school already. These things do sort themselves out, and not everybody's daughter ends up being the most liked by everyone. In fact, rarely is ANY body liked by everyone! This is when learning to love the skin you're in lessons can come into play. That is how you raise a well adjusted adult. Good luck!!

Honestly I would expect this level of parental involvement in kindergarten, perhaps first, but by middle school either it is your daughter's hill to die on or it just isn't that important to her. I am answering this way because I don't even understand why this is an issue in the first place. Oh my god, the friends want to sit together!! The horror. Is there a reason why the one group can't be polite and just make it easier for the other group of friends to sit together? Can an argument be made that your daughter's group is intentionally using this stupid no saving seats rule to passive aggressively get in the way of the other group sitting together?

Sorry but my take away after reading this is a whole lot of people need to grow up. The girls have an excuse, they are still young, why are you wanting to get in the middle of this?

This sounds like perfectly normal teenager behavior, and if you think your daughter behaves perfectly at school you are fooling yourself. As long as no one is being singled out for bullying, and no one is getting hurt, then leave it alone and let them do what teens do.

I would tell my daughter and her friends to say "Nope, you can't tell people where to sit or save seats." Since it's a rule, how far are the mean girls going to push it? Obviously too far it sounds like... If they continue to do this, then I (me, the parent, on my own time, in private) might be tempted to notify the principal that it is happening so to have whoever is on duty to keep an eye out, and so that teachers remind the kids. I would do it in a way that does not sound like it's for only my own child's benefit, but in a "Hey, it's been brought to my attention that there is some seat-saving and exclusion going on in the lunchroom by certain cliques, just thought you'd like to know." way. It's easy enough for someone to remind everyone of the rules. Personally I'd be upset that some kids were moving when they don't have to. It's enabling the exact behavior the school is trying not to support.
The reason I would get involved, even at the junior high level, is not for my own child who is reasonably popular and wouldn't be too affected by being left out of certain groups, but for kids who are extremely awkward socially who may be getting even worse treatment. The school needs to be on top of this bs.

I'd leave it be for now. Middle School friendships are as changeable as the tide. If your DD feels she needs reinforcements, remind her she and her friends can talk to teachers and counselors themselves.

Most schools have the policy of what happens in the XXXX stays in the XXXX and doesn't come to the classroom. So the teachers probably aren't aware of any issues.

I'd call the main office and ask to speak to the person in charge of lunchroom supervision. I'd talk to them and see if there is anything that can be done. Perhaps having some adult that is aware there is a problem can help the kids have their areas and keep the peace?

Leave it alone. It's common stuff. Children need to learn conflict resolution - let them.

It's middle school. Let them sort it out. Sounds like that may already be happening. If YOU get involved, it won't make things better for your daughter. Empower HER if you must do something. Don't do it for her. But I'd let them sort it out, most likely.

It is SO hard to watch the middle school drama. Unfortunately I agree with those who are saying that this is only the beginning. I read a book called Between Baby Dolls and Boyfriends, it's all about tween girls. It gave a really good perspective. One gem was that yes, girls this age need to advocate for themselves, but we need to be there to give them these skills. You do this by teaching her conflict resolution skills at home. The most important thing you can do is just listen. This will show her you are available and won't always freak out. My other thoughts here are that because there will likely be more serious things in the future, you want to save your call the counselor cards for those things. Another thing is that it's totally possible that these groups get shaken up and your daughter may be friends with one of the 'popular' girls soon, that will be awkward if you've complained about her!

It sounds like you have done a good job giving your daughter a solid foundation where she knew the best thing was to move and avoid the drama. Just keep listening, she'll be ok. I do feel for you, though, it's really hard not to jump in for your baby!! Good luck.

That is what the counselor is for. DS is still in elementary school so I can't yet speak to middle school. However our counselor runs programs (ranging from whole class presentations to small group discussions and workshops) both on a planned and as needed basis on topics including friendships, cliques, exclusion and bullying. Middle school kids are still learning and the 'popular' kids have a lot to learn, not just the excluded kids.

Parent of HS freshman girl so we've just done the whole middle school thing.

If your DD and her group are already seated when someone else says to move, they need to stay put. They're already there. They can look up and say, "No, we were already here" and turn back to each other to talk and ignore anything else that gets said by the mean girls.

I would not get involved as the parent here, but I would definitely keep the channels of communication wide open with your daughter so she will let you know freely if this escalates. It's the lunchroom for right now and they can manage it by just not sitting with these girls and/or by simply saying "We were already here" when told to move.

You do need to stay in the loop to be sure that this doesn't spill over into other aspects of school, especially academic classes where kids need to be focused on the work, not on drama. And just be aware that gym class and/or free periods like study hall types of times (many middle schools have them in our area) are the times when this crud might flare up in other forms. Just talk to your kid a lot but don't press her with lots of questions about this dynamic.

I think it is good that you as a parent already have the school counselor option on your radar, even though I wouldn't use that option for this situation. So many parents seem to forget the existence of the counselors and that's a pity, because they can be very helpful. This isn't a case where the counselor would necessarily be directly involved -- the counselor likely would not go into the cafeteria and tell the alpha-girls to cut it out -- but the counselor would be more likely to talk with your daughter about how to respond to such treatment. If things really escalate or if your daughter seems inordinately upset by this to the point it's a distraction, she could see the counselor for tips on how to react, but she, not you, should be the one to see the counselor if that happens.

In our MS, there were four periods of lunch, and the lunch period a kid had changed periodically from quarter to quarter so they weren't always in the same lunch period all year long. Does that happen at your school? If so, that can help defuse the problem as well simply because the same group of kids won't be in the lunchroom at the same time all year long.