Is It Shyness or Bad Behavior?

There's a book called Have You Filled A Bucket Today? (link to it on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Have-You-Filled-Bucket-Today/dp/097.... I think it was written by a child counselor. It talks about how we each have an imaginary bucket, that when full, makes us feel good (and when not, not). It describes different ways to fill someone else's bucket and many are just every day kind exchanges. It helps them to understand how the other person might feel if their "hello," or other kind word or deed is not acknowledged or reciprocated.

Whether this is "normal" or not, I don't know, but I do know if a child gets extra attention for a behavior, they'll continue to do it. You may ignore this behavior, and praise her when she interacts appropriately.

K.,

I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me with my kids! I had an outgoing, happy, full-of-energy son who I was afraid would go home with a stranger and a daugther who wouldn't even go to her father! And who wouldn't talk to ANYONE and didn't even smile in public to the point where people would ask me if she EVER talked or EVER smiled!

Just so you know, she is 20 years old now and a college junior and a very confident, intelligent, remarkable young woman who isn't necessarily shy, but not loud, outgoing and boisterous either. She is organized, she is a logical thinker, and very strong academically. But I remember 4yo being an especially tough year with her. This is what I did.

I played a game with her. It was a game of catch with a small ball. I asked, "When I throw you the ball, what do you do?" She said, "Throw it back." I said, "Having a conversation is like playing catch. When someone throws words to you, you need to throw some back." Then we would practice as we threw the ball back and forth. So I'd throw the ball and say, "Hi, Anna, how are you today?" and then I'd coach her to answer me as she threw the ball back. If she didn't know what to say, I'd help her to know she was to say, "I'm fine, and how are you?" and we'd keep playing catch and practicing our conversations.

Then, when we were going out, I'd remind her about how she was supposed to play "catch" with words and encourage her to do so when someone spoke to her. If someone spoke to her and she hesitated, then I'd gently remind her by saying, "its your turn to throw." It was kind of our private little thing we had between us and the other person didn't need to know what it was about. If she responded politely to the other person, I'd be sure to praise her when we were alone together and tell her how happy I was that she was learning the art of conversation.

Also, I let her know without a doubt that I didn't mind her being shy, but that she was NOT allowed to be rude. Meaning, that I didn't mind if she didn't initiate conversations with others, but if someone spoke to her, I expected her to answer politely. I don't remember how I punished her exactly, but I know that she was punished if she was rude to anyone. I don't think that I had to punish her very many times because she was the kind of child who never wanted to displease me and reacted strongly if I said that I was unhappy with her.

Another thing I had her do during her childhood, as she got older, was to make her ask for things herself. As in, if we were in McDonalds and she needed ketchup for instance, I would tell her to go ask the lady herself. If she hesitated, I would say, "Well, I guess you don't want ketchup." I would not cover for her, and I would not let her outgoing brother do it for her either.

And during her pre-teen and teens, I had her call on the phone to ask for things like store hours, information, directions, prices. During her senior year in high school, I had her call to make her own doctor appts. and fill her own prescriptions, showing her insurance card and answering questions, etc.

For the shy child, it is difficult for them to overcome their shyness, but as we prepare our children to live in the real world, learning these essential skills are necessary for independence. My shy one is confident in her ability to meet, greet, ask for assistance of her professors when needed, apply for jobs, get dr. appts, get her car fixed, and generally speak up to meet her own needs. It is a long process, but with lots of coaching, love and patience, you can help her to find her voice.

Hope this helps,
L.

My guess is that it's a stage if it just recently started (even just the rudeness if she was always quiet). My son is like that off and on (he's almost 6). Pushing her can make it worse as well as you saying you were afraid of labeling. When I've had students like that (I used to teach special ed, and now I volunteer at area things teaching), I've learned to make specific rules that don't involve actual talking. Something like, you don't have to talk, but you can wave, or no moving away, and let her try something less "frightening". Some kids just don't like men (or women, or dogs, or beards, or glasses, or whatever it is). Perhaps to just apologize and say "not today" would be fine for others. Most people don't really care if your child "misbehaves" only when their own do, you will take it much more personally then they do because we, as moms, feel it is a reflection on our parenting. Just take it easy, breathe, and let it go so it doesn't become a massive power struggle.

Three things we can't MAKE our kids do...eat, speak, and go potty! These are major controlling things (believe me, I've dealt for long periods with all 3 with my own and other people's children).

Good luck.
M.

I'm another older mom who can tell you that I've been through this. My sons are 20 and 18. We used to joke that the older one would walk right up to Charles Manson and start a happy conversation. He's still that way... Mr. Charm and Personality. Younger son was shy and reserved, and he had a way of squinting his eyes and pursing his lips together whenever someone spoke to him. It always seemed more than shyness. It seemed as if he were outright irritated and annoyed when someone spoke to him. I was never quite sure if he was trying to get out from his older brother's big shadow of personality, or if he was flat out anti-social. It was probably a little of both.

I love L.'s idea of playing catch. I wish I had been that creative! But along those lines, I knew that it wasn't effective to try to teach my son good manners "in the moment." He was obviously stressed when having to interact with people, both strangers and people familiar to him. That was not the time to tell him to speak up or look people in the eye. So we would talk about it at home when he was comfortable. We played dialogue games where we'd pretend with his cars and other toys. Mr. Red Car meets Mr. Blue Car. Hello, how are you Red? I'm fine. How are you, Blue. LOL You get the picture.

I wouldn't push too hard, because your daughter is only 4. But little by little, you should introduce her to proper social behavior. I don't think you should ignore her behavior, but you don't necessarily have to push her right at the moment that it happens. I also don't think this is something that warrants a full scale investigation by a mental health professional. Sometimes I wonder why people jump to those sorts of conclusions right from the get-go! Sheesh!

I'm very big on teaching good social skills to kids. A well mannered person always makes a good impression. Knowing how to interact will help your daughter to feel confident, and that's so very important. Why not give our children the tools they need to feel comfortable and confident? Not to go on an rant about my in-laws, but my MIL is a great one for advocating ignoring bad behavior and not "pressuring" children. Well, her four children are socially stunted. My husband is 50, and I still have to remind him to say good-bye and thank you to our hosts when we go out. Because my brother-in-law is left-handed, my MIL felt that she couldn't teach him to hold a fork properly. His table manners are atrocious to this day. Other people are very put-off by my brother-in-law's and my sisters-in-law's manners and say that they are rude or stuck-up because they don't talk to people at gatherings, sit only with each other, never make eye contact, and are just generally antisocial. The thing is, they aren't any of those things. They were just never taught to behave properly, and they feel so uncomfortable that they avoid other people. Other people form opinions based on their behavior. Fair or unfair, that's how it is.

My point is, you don't have to be the manners police, but gentle teaching during the times when your daughter is feeling comfortable will help her to learn how to behave and will lessen her anxiety. Oh, and my shy son is a confident young man now. When I tell people that he was a shy little boy, they hardly believe it.

Hi K.,
I remember when my son was 3 he was like this to one friend of mine and she was the most jovial child loving person you ever would want to meet. She was one of those people that would chuckle at almost everything she just had a jolly spirit. Well my son would blurt out "Don't laugh Carol - it's not funny. Well, needless to say I wanted to just -- well let's just say I was mortified. Anyway he did out grow it. By modeling correct behavior and watching what programs he was watching on TV helped. But I did a google search for you and although I am not particularly fond of the title I did find some exerpts of this book intersteing. The book is called. The Baffled Parent's Guide to Stopping Bad Behavior by Kate Kelly, Miram Edleman. (told you the title wasn't that great) but you can read some of it online. The web address seemed to long to post. Just google what you wrote in your post (shyness or bad behavior)
I found what they had to say about shyness interesting. (I have a 3 year old granddaughter that is "slow to warm up" She is not particularly friendly with the boys in my care that are her age or younger but does like the one older boy who is 5 but he is so good with her too. She sometimes shys away from my husband and even her dad to go with mom or me.
In my child care I teach a Kindness Curriculum and we do exercises such as writing a note to a neighbor, and making coupons of good deeds to do for others. There are a lot of children's story books that deal with these subjects as well. Berenstain Bears have books many different behaviors and subjects, Boz The Bear, Barney, Arthur, Even the Cinderella or other Princess Stories, Children's Bible stories that describe undesireable behavoir and how it effects others. You can talk about how the way the characters feel in the book and then relate it to real life. The Golden rule -- ask how she thinks she would feel if someone treated her that way. She is not too young to feel empathy. By continuing to Guide her in this way, monitoring programs & and modeling are the best ways. Somtimes just reinforcing and discussing these stories will make an impression on her. The story books are helpful because they are at her level. If this just started all of a sudden it may just be a phase, as it was with my son. But nonetheless something that I know is troubling. I hope that you find these suggestions helpful.

Most of the time children exhibit specific behavior to meet a need, or to tell you something you aren't catching. . . so I wouldn't discipline it out of her or get mad at her. I'd get VERY VERY interested. REALLY watch her. Why is she uncomfortable around these other people ? I wouldn't force her to interact with people. Make sure she feels okay about herself. You can even ask her if there's a reason she doesn't want to play with so-and-so, generally after a situation, but eye to eye, with you scrunched down to her level. There are many many reasons why she might not want to, and they may be HUGE in her mind, or they may be really absurd (esp in your mind). But you want to know the REASON for the behavior before you attack it or change it. She may just be more reserved and need to warm up to people when they arrive on the scene before she interracts with them.

Our 3rd child was incredibly well behaved, and when my husband would pick her up at daycare every night, she'd jump up, scream, "DADDDDEEEEE!" and run into his arms. He LOVED it. One day he got out of work early, and went to pick her up, expecting her loving reaction. She looked up at him and sat right there, and burst into tears. . . . poor dad. We discovered that with her, she needed to know early on if her day was going to be different. So if she had a doc's app't or something unusual was going to happen, we coached her, and the babysitter would remind her during the day, and then she coped just fine.

Once you've really tried to dig in, and if you don't see anything "amiss" in her adult relationships, then maybe try coaching a little before the people arrive. Daddy will be home soon. What shall we do to show him we're glad he's home? Do what SHE thinks is a good idea. (let Daddy know you are going to ask this, so he's planning to be pleased with whatever she proposes) Maybe if she has time to plan something, and do it on her terms, and Daddy is happy with her surprise or welcome, then maybe she'll begin to take pride in pleasing him, and begin to feel more capable of responding appropriately. And from her relationship wtih Daddy, it should generalize to others.

On the other hand, if it's a matter of politeness, maybe you can help her, by giving her words to say when she wants to be quiet and not interact. She could learn to say hello and smile at people, and then let them know that right now she's having some quiet time or something.

My oldest is very outgoing, very social and very dominant in social scenes as a 28 yr old. But when she was 3, she went to preschool for 1.5 weeks without talking to ANYONE there. They never told me, either. They told me the day she "finally" uttered her first word there. Well, after that, I felt horrible that she hadn't spoken, but they told me that was normal for her age. And then I noticed that she needed to "check out the scene" every time she was in a new environment before she began to be comfortable in it. Now she jumps into scenes and plays it by ear better than any of the rest of us, but early on, she was really studying people and their behavior before she did anything.

So I would just really observe. She may be quiet because her older sibling isn't. She may still be figuring out the scene, and you want to be sure whatever you do helps her to gain confidence rather than robs her of any she might have.

Good luck! Every child is a new experience, and we as Moms just have to play everything by ear, figure out the best way to reach each child and help them to navigate their way through life. It's a big job, isn't it ?

Hi. You received a lot of good advice. I hope you read it all and decide what works best for you.

For what it's worth, my daughter was the same way. She's now 14 and doing much better. She's Student Council President so she certainly learned speaking skills.

The major issue with my daughter was that my son -- the "friendly to a fault" talker talker talker son as you put it -- did the talking for her. He handled situations for her and spoke for both of them when family or friends came near. He thought he was doing the right thing by looking out for his sister, but he also liked being the center of attention. My daughter was perfectly content letting my son do the talking.

One day when she was about 6 years old I had to bring them to work with me. I introduced my children to my coworkers and she said nothing. That was the day I began to realize she was leaning on my son so much. I started with the little things -- look people in the eye when they are talking to you and respond either with a simple answer (I'm fine, thank you -- or similar) or a smile. She just didn't know what to say or how to act. She was not invisible with her brother taking charge, but she didn't need to think about what she should be saying or doing -- he did it for her.

My daughter is also very close to my husband, but did not warm up too easily to other men. Not sure what that was about, and even she can't articulate why she felt that way. I think women just tend to be "warm and fuzzy" and make children feel more comfortable.

Follow your instincts and be patient. It's not quite bad behavior as needing more work and patience. Hang in there.

I have a now 14 year old daughter that responded this way to almost everyone. She did out grow it with time and work. I would tell her that she didn't have to be really friendly, but at least to acknowledge a person and not ignore them completely. We would practice what to say to people. She is still shy to this day, but encouragment has come out of her shell quite a bit.

I also think as some have suggested that it was a control issue. Most of the time I ignored her behaviour and encouraged her when she was behavoring properly.

I also agree with others that she appears to respond this way mostly to men. I would want to find out if she has had a problem with a man.

Hi K.,

Take your child to a pediatric psychologist to do an assessment to see what is going on with her.

Good luck. Hope this helps. D.

Hi K.. This doesn't sound like shyness. It also doesn't sound like "bad behavior". It sounds like she is the kind of child that isn't willing to "follow the pack" and has opinions of her own about people and she is a bit distrustful of men. Quit pushing her. Quit trying to "encourage" her to accept or react to people the way you want her to and pay attention to how she does relate to people. There is a reason why she is acting the way she is...weather it is because she feels that you are forcing people on her (and can't express that thought or emotion) or because she wants to be different than her brother you may never know. I recommend that you ignore this behavior and let her learn/be with people on her own terms. Do not talk for her, require only that she be respectful and use good manners. You can't force someone to like/love/want to spend time with someone else no matter what the age. The less you push (and you are even if you don't think so) the better off you will all be. Best wishes.

It struck me as well that it seemed like situations with men or where men are present seem to be the most difficult. While that doesn't necessarily mean any thing bad happened (maybe she's just around more women and therefore more comfortable with them), I would at least consider the possibility that there's something deeper. Maybe talk to your ped about the best way to talk about it.

Assuming there's no serious underlying reason, I would try to relax a little about it. While I wouldn't accept outright rudeness (saying unkind or rude things, etc.), I think if it's just shyness you should respect her feelings. I don't believe children should ever be forced to hug, kiss, sit on someone's lap, etc. if they are uncomfortable with the situation. You can encourage them to at least say hello and praise them when they are able to talk with other people, but I think forcing behavior is a bad idea and can teach kids not to trust their own instincts and to think they have to agree with whatever type of interaction someone requests.

I would encourage you to be patient and to talk with your daughter about who makes her uncomfortable and why. Maybe it's something easily solved if you give her a chance to explain what's going on. Most importantly, try not to get angry or upset with her (hard sometimes, I know) - your daughter needs to know that you are a safe person and she can talk to you about anything. Keeping an open mind and heart for her is so important and the better able you are to establish a safe conversation place for her now, the better it will be as she grows older. I also think it's worth a conversation with your ped to help with how to address the issue. Good luck.

i dont have any real advice to give but I have a 3 year old daughter that is exactly the same way. I think it is a control issue as well as being shy. If i push the interaction then she just pushes back further and will not interact more. I find that ignoring it or reverse psychology works in some situations for her. Like with my dad, she won't acknowledge him sometimes but I tell her that her brother will give him a hug instead of her and she practically kills herself to be the first to give the hug to my dad. Then she is fine after the initial break in the antisocial behavior. I think at this age they are getting self conscious and feel embarrassed when put on the spot. That seems to explain the behavior with my child. Good luck because I know it can be a pain in the butt.

My first impression is that you should investigate if something "bad" happened with a male. Now I know this seems like I am jumping the gun, but in your OP you list that she is very non verbal and stand-ofish to males. And also to females untill she can talk to them alone, or without the presence of a male. That seems a bit odd to me, IMO. There are times that children will prefer a parent over another due to gender roles and devolepment, but to ingonre aq gender seems strange. I can't actually say that she is being rude or if she is doing a form of self preservation.

My daughter is the same way.I would ignoe if she is basically a good kid this may just be her asserting her independence or it may just take her a while to warm up to people.My famiy knows now not to come up to my daughter as soon as we get some place and expect or to be all over them but a half hour later after she is ready she is all hugs and kisses.I would just let her be.

I don't usually respond to these boards, as I am a grandmother and a bit out of the every day child rearing loop, but I wholeheartedly agree with Jamie that there appears to be some problem with males. It could be as simple as "shyness", but reread your own request and you will see that there is a pattern of male avoidance. I urge you to seek a professional opinion if this continues. Best of luck.

I would talk to her about it. Ask her why she doesn't want to talk to so and so. You've only listed bad reactions to males, so I would have to consider the possiblity that she had a bad experience with a man at some point. Discussing it could make her feel better. It may also just be a reaction to you. You say she won't talk at school if you are there, but talks when you are not. She may just be using this as a way to get more attention from you. She may also need more time to warm up to situations.
If she can't give you a reason for her behavior, I would stop commenting on it. Try to ignore it. If she stops getting attention for it, then it should stop. Also, you can warn family & friends about the behavior in advance. Ask them not to take it personally & that you are choosing to ignore it at this time in the hopes that it will go away. I think most people would be very understanding. (Just don't talk about it in front of your daughter).