Does This Sound Fair?

What does Christmas have to do with stealing from his brother? Is the message of Christmas that we only give gifts and celebrate good cheer with people who are nice and honest?

For the stealing / lying etc - he works to replace the items. he gets counseling. If he refuses to go or won't participate you look at a "program" or military school that CAN help him with his anger and interpersonal / social issues.
You have to delve way deeper into why he has the issues he has. Family counseling is in order because trust has been violated.

I still don't see how eliminating his Christmas will teach him anything. That will serve to only make him angrier. You need to get to whatever the root of the problem is so that you can work on rebuilding a whole family, including him.

I would keep this totally separate from Christmas. Make his consequence earning the money and some other penalty, something taken away, grounding, etc, but keep him in the Christmas celebration.

Ditto Rosebud.

I lent my best friend something expensive once. No problems trusting her, but behind both our backs, her 16 year old son stole it, sold it and used the money for drugs and alcohol. He wasn't old enough to buy any of that, but just like your stepson, he found a "friend" to help him sell the item and buy the illegal things.

When my friend found out, of course, she was livid, embarrassed, hurt, sad... Her approach was one that I thought was really loving, tough, and lasting.

First, she took her son to a counselor. In this case, it was her pastor. (If she hadn't had a pastor or priest she would have gone to an adolescent-specialist psychologist). She sat there beside her son while her son told the pastor what he had done. The pastor helped him face his issues, and of course, I'm not sure what the pastor counseled him privately about (the drinking and the drugs - that was not my business, but she told me it was tough and fair and effective). However, as far as I was concerned, the pastor helped the boy write a letter to me, confessing what he had done, apologizing, and laying out a plan of accountability and repayment. The boy also told me about how he would be meeting with the pastor every week and that he would not miss a meeting or appointment. The boy paid his mom every two weeks from odd jobs, and she wrote me a check. The boy reported to the pastor every week and accounted for his whereabouts, his spending habits, his repayment status, and his behavior (with his mom fully aware of everything going on.) The pastor communicated with me and asked if I would write to the boy. I did, and forgave him, because it was just "stuff" (although I was honest and told him how sorry and hurt I was) and I value his mom's friendship more than anything. That letter was also read in the pastor's presence and discussed. The boy wrote me a reply which was so heartfelt and honest.

The boy did not get birthday gifts that year (his birthday was coming up), but his family and his pastor all took great care to remind him that he was loved, but he had violated their trust and had cost me a great deal of money. But he could earn it back. It would take time and effort. He did get a simple birthday cake, and his mom made his favorite meal on his birthday.

I liked how they handled it. They never made the boy feel like he was hopeless, or cast out. He knew exactly what had to be done to be trusted again.

That boy turned his life around. He has not had one problem with the law since. He stopped drinking and stealing. He knew his family would not abandon him, but neither would they make demands they weren't prepared to follow through with, and they would not let this serious action just slide by.

So I think that your husband's actions are appropriate, but I think you need an outside person (religious leader, psychologist, social worker, etc) to help keep the boy accountable and to realize how serious this is. But he also needs to realize that he is loved and that he can earn a good reputation back, and earn back trust, and become a person of integrity, and how invaluable that is. I do think he should get some simple gifts like a sweater, and some candy, maybe new gloves, etc. He needs to be reminded that he's part of the family and loved, while still realizing that he cost the family a lot of money and that there's restitution to be made. It's important not to rub it in (like after your younger son opens a gift, no one should say "oh, Tom, too bad you won't be getting any new video games this year"). Save the discussion about the crime for the sessions with the counselor or pastor or priest.

Did you get to the bottom of why he was selling your son's things? I'd be very concerned he was doing that to fund a drug habit.

Gosh, that's tough. On one hand, what he did was literally criminal. On the other hand...Christmas. Family. Giving.

I think I would do what you propose, if for nothing else than to make sure that *I* wasn't left feeling terrible. My other kids would be upset too, to see one sibling get nothing. Maybe that makes me an enabler but it would break my heart to give nothing.

That said...I would strongly suspect your step-son has a drug or gambling problem. Please get some counseling for him AND for you, your husband and the rest of the family ASAP. Drug test him if you haven't already...you can get a basic kit at any pharmacy or have his doctor do it. Whatever the motive is, your family is in crisis. Please make sure that you work together to get to the bottom of this and turn things around before it's too late.

One of my younger brothers started stealing and selling things when he was a teenager. By senior year in high school, he was running a gambling ring and got himself in serious trouble with the "real" bookies when he wasn't paying up on his "clients'" losses. He did his first stint of rehab at age 19 but had probably been using for 3-4 year by that point. He finally died of an overdose at age 34, three years ago. My parents went through 19 years of hell with him, trying to help him claw his way back from addiction. He stole from me when I was a single mom, selling all my DVD's (my son's Disney movies) and CDs to a pawn shop. He stole my parents credit cards and cash. He stole things from my other siblings and pawned them or traded them for drugs. All that said...I could never let a birthday or Christmas go by without giving him a gift. As the years went by it was harder and harder to give him things that he wouldn't be able to sell for drugs, but I - and my parents and siblings - gave him things anyway. Maybe we were all enablers, but in our family Christmas and birthdays are sacred and get celebrated, even for those who don't "deserve" to get anything.

My heart goes out to you, it really does. I can't imagine how stressed out you all are and really hope that you are working with professionals to all get the help that you need to get your family from crisis to peace. And I commend you for having compassion for your step-son even though he violated your biological son. In many blended families this would easily become and "us against them" battle with parents and children lining up by blood line so good for you and your husband for not defaulting to positions of him defending his son and you attacking your step-son. Best of luck to all of you!

i'd separate the issues. anyone who did something this heinous could certainly expect a rather somber christmas, (i HATE thieving!) but tying this terrible, inexcusable deed to christmas isn't really the right message, is it?
my dad talks about the year he was a Bad Kid. he was only 7 or so, but his parents decided to 'straighten him out' by just putting coal in his stocking. it doesn't seem to have scarred him too deeply, but i want to cry just thinking about it.
he DOES need to replace the objects. he DOES need to come forth with the reason for needing money, and 'drugs' is an almost certain bet. he DOES need to continue with counseling, and i like the suggestions that you add family counseling to his individual work.
christmas will suck for EVERYONE if he just gets underwear while the rest of you attempt to appear cheerful. the punishment needs to be about him, not everyone else, and what you're proposing is a form of public humiliation, which rarely works.
there are deep-seated issues that need to be addressed here, and christmas is the least of your worries. i'd keep the family christmas intact, and find better, more useful ways of getting to the bottom of your troubled boy's issues.
good luck, S..
khairete
S.

I would still get him the things he needs (I assume you mean things like clothes, right?) I would also be VERY concerned about this behavior. Not buying him presents isn't really dealing with the underlying issues he has if he's already in so much trouble. Is your husband spending enough time with him, do they have a good relationship? Are you guys doing something positive and constructive to help him change his behavior? Stealing and selling family possessions is a HUGE red flag to me, like maybe he's buying pot or other drugs.
Harsh punishments don't always work, in fact it can backfire big time. The more troubled the child the more likely he is to say "f*c* it I don't care" when he's punished so PLEASE try to work with him and get him some professional help if he needs it!

I'm going with my gut here:

Your stepson has some major issues, and excluding him on Christmas will only make them worse. I'm going to guess that the divorce of his parents and not being with his mother are painful to him. I'm also guessing that Dad needs to really start paying more attention to him.

Your stepson is hurting, and he is acting out because of it. I think you need to give him a normal Christmas, and punish him in another way.

I think the best way is to make him replace the items, and then maybe a certain amount of grounding. He definitely should not see that friend for a while. The punishment really should fit the crime, and replacing the items is the most-related natural consequence.

You might need to have him drug tested, since that's a possible reason he would be selling his brother's possessions.

Your stepson is hurting. He needs love. Please don't take Christmas away from him.

Sorry, but I agree with your husband here, especially since he already told him the punishment. He is STEALING from family. If he's doing it now and he doesn't face a harsh consequence, it will only get bigger and worse.

I can be lenient but STEALING from his little brother is so immoral I would be getting him to counseling asap. That is so twisted it's unbelievable. Christmas should be the least of his worries. So I'm with your husband. Stealing $50 or something from your wallet is bad but one thing. Hurting his little brother like that?? Something is really wrong, sorry.

You mention that he's in counseling but never speaks. Do you know that because the counselor tells you that or because you are present at the counseling yourself -- maybe it's family counseling?

I ask because I think you and your husband should be in some form of counseling WITH his son (in addition to, not replacing, individual counseling for the boy) and you and your husband might benefit from parenting counseling where just the two of you go.

The discipline for the stealing and selling is something I would have wanted to discuss with a counselor, to get an objective, professional third party's perspective. I know you're coming to us here but we're not counselors. I would really want to sit down and assess with a counselor whether it's worse to give the boy nothing at all and create more resentments (as some have posted) or to give him something and send a signal that what he did wasn't much of an issue....

Fairness is not about "everyone gets something to open" --it's about giving each person what he or she needs, not about giving each person the same thing. And by needs in this case, I mean the need your stepson has for some kind of meaningful consequence -- not the need for socks or underwear. Again, please consider going with your husband to see a counselor yourselves so you and he get on the same page regarding this boy.

Also, please tell me that you DID try to find out what happened to the money the boy already got from selling things? As others here note, that is crucial - why does he need money, what's he spending it on? There could be drug or other issues here that are driving some of his issues but if you stop at just focusing on the stealing you're not going deep enough. I hope you are in touch with his counselor very closely. If he is not talking at all, does the counselor think he needs a different counselor, another approach, an inpatient counseling period?

And finally -- he involved another kid in his thefts. The kid, knowingly or unknowingly, basically was fencing stolen goods. Yeah, that sounds dramatic. But even if the other kid didn't know the items were stolen, the other kid surely should have known or at least figured out that the boy was selling things behind his parents' backs. Please tell the other kid's parents immediately what was going on so THEY can handle this with their own son. He needs discipline and direction here too, even if he was so gullible he believed your stepson's every word that the items were his to sell.

And your own son -- he surely is furious and will never trust his stepbrother again. This is all set up for nightmare teen years for your own son. Is anyone talking with him, maybe even getting him some short-term counseling (possibly the school counselor could talk with him) so that your own son doesn't end up lashing out in anger or acting out as a result of this?? Don't lose sight of him in the worry over the older boy, and don't assume that getting back similar items will make things OK with the younger boy. He is never going to forget this. It could make him distrust everyone, not just his stepbrother.

Stealing is bad but I've got to wonder exactly what he wants the money for.
Is he doing drugs?
Socks and underwear and some basic clothes are fine.
He needs counseling and your younger son needs to lock his things up.
Family counseling would be a good thing too.
His behavior is affecting the whole family.
If anything like this happens again - fill out a police report and have him arrested.

Nope. You should stick with hubby's punishment. He didn't care in the least that he was stealing from family (even seasoned criminals don't steal from family for pete's sake - exception would be drug addicts - they steal from everyone!) He should be made to sit and watch just like his brother would have to sit and watch his friends play with their 3ds and tablets and be without. He's old enough that if you don't make it really hurt, he will continue to steal and next time might find himself under arrest. Tough love, mama!

I agree to keep it separate. Clearly your stepson feels bad about something, and he is acting out towards your boys. Does he feel like an outsider? Can you imagine how much worse he'd feel watching the other boys have a good time opening awesome presents? I'm sure it would drive a larger wedge for him.

I get a strong sense that pretty much no matter what you do, this boy is going to become more troubled and troubling. A person doesn't just start stealing one day with no reason. There is a much bigger problem here that Needs attention.

The thing is, he does not see your sense of fairness, or empathy, he just sees that he got caught and wants money -- but why??? I'm not sure you should go against the punishment your husband set. Yet Christmas is a whole other thing. A lot depends on how your family celebrates and the beliefs you hold. If it's only about gifts maybe you should just stick with the punishment handed out. Although he will be angry and probably sulk. I don't know that it's worth it in this case. Your husband could always say he's thought about it and changed his mind. But even so, he will probably still feel separated and angry. This is kind of a hard one to deal with.

You have to ask yourself why it's important to you that you get these gifts after all he probably doesn't actually Need anything. And if he needs underwear or socks you can always give those any time. If it's about how uncomfortable it is when everyone else is opening gifts, you'll have to deal with it as will he. He created this and he should be told that he created it.

I would come up with another punishment that is far more meaningful and hopefully will actually make him turn around. After all, he has a real problem going on and you and your husband need to get to the root of it. You can't turn the clock back to his childhood but you can do something now. I'm not sure what that is exactly, you know your son and situation. You need help to figure it out because this is a huge stop sign in your face.

I think one of the things I'd do is have been work at a soup kitchen on a regular basis or something like it. Another thing I think I'd do is get him involved with some type of organization. He needs direction. Maybe you could get him involved at working regularly with horses. This is often good for kids. He'd work so many hours a week and get riding lessons. Or maybe get him into learning fencing or the like. Maybe wood carving or a martial art. He needs something different, something to learn skills and hone the skills. And get away from his "friends". Teens need something to be dedicated to, they need to learn skills from an expert. He has too much time on his hands. I would look at this as a turning point. It's a very big deal that he stole from anyone and especially his own brother, it shows his utter disrespect. But stealing from his brother was so convenient.

Give him a lump of coal with a note that says: Now you can begin working your way back up -- Love, Santa

wow I would be livid, I would tell him that his xmas money and gifts are going towards the little brother to replace the things he stole and sold. That was his choice to make such poor decisions so he has to deal with the consequence. Then I would ground him for quite a while and make him do additional chores on a daily basis during said grounding. This is totally unaccaptable.

Honestly, you're not going far enough.

And consider talking to the police - contact the police non-emergency hotline and ask them what a good idea would be in a situation like this.

He STOLE - He wasn't selling them. HE STOLE THEM AND WAS FENCING THEM. Adults get arrested for this.

I know you don't want to go that far, but he crossed major lines and if he were a few years older, he'd be in massive trouble.

Give him things he needs. No gifts.

By being singled out he will hold resentment against the other kids and learn to hate them. He'll also hate both of you. Have you considered in-patient treatment? There are many places that take youth and keep them for weeks or months. They wear them down so they can get them at their weakest and get to the root of the problems. During this time they really don't want family to visit because that often blocks the youth from progressing.

I think he's letting you know he's in distress and you need to do something now. Look online for in-patient places in your area but don't discount one that sounds good that's even 100 miles away.

Your psychologist might be helpful but if they take this as your saying they aren't doing their job they might say it's not a good idea.

I think that sounds fair, but you also need to dig deeper into WHY he was stealing and selling these items. What did he need the money for? Was it out of some kind of retaliation or dislike of his brother? I would dig a little deeper before you let this drop.