Do We Need an IEP or Is There Another Option?

Hi there mom,
I'm a school psychologist working closely with children with average to above average intelligence whom have emotional problems- its not uncommon. My personal advise would be that if you have a dx from childrens, 1) work closely with the school social worker and school psycholoigst- perhaps ask them to develop a behavioral intervention plan- if your child has a dx you can also put it in writing to request a meeting with the special ed. team to develop either a 504 plan or ask to review your outside evaluation from the hospital and do further testing to develop an IEP for Emotional Disturbance ; ED. this sounds scarry but it legally ensures all teachers and the building principal to adere to whats legally bound and rightfuly so for your son.
hope this helps

R.,
I am a School Psychologist in the state of Ohio. First off, you have to be careful when taking advice from people. Overall, people mean well, but when offering advice with little to no knowledge about what you are saying, it puts everyone in a very bad position, especially when we are talking legal issues in education.
All schools SHOULD be making sure that there are no concerns, medically, behaviorally, emotionally, academically, etc. that is impeding a child from making progress with the general curriculum. If a child has concerns AND it those concerns are affecting the child from making progress and not progressing at a rate comparable to his/her typical developing peers, then you do have options.
The first thing you (and others) need to understand is that just because an IEP (Individualized Education Plan) or IEP meeting is requested, it does not have to happen. In the state of Ohio, when a parent requests one of those things for a child not currently on an IEP, they are really requesting that a multi-factored evaluation be completed. This is an ETR (Evaluation Team Report, formally known as an MFE). The district must responsd to the parent within 30 days of the WRITTEN request for an evaluation with a PWN (Prior Written Notice) as to what the district will or will not be doing. Most of the time (outside extenuating circumstances), the district cannot begin an evaluation. Interventions are required to be implemented first in the state of Ohio in order to see if something can be done within the classroom or LRE (Least Restrictive Environment) in order to change the child's behaviors, assist with learning, etc. Most important to remember is that reasonable accommodations can be provided to ANY child within a classroom, regular or special ed.
It sounds as though you need to request a meeting with the school's intervention team (if you have already gone through the teacher and building administrator with no success). At that meeting, concerns, behaviors, affects of those behaviors, etc. are discussed. If he is having problems within the classroom, then interventions should be implemented often in the form of a Functional Behavior Assessment and Plan when dealing with social-emotional and behavioral issues.
Ultimately, you want to document all interactions between you and the district. You can also seek out your local State Support Team who assists both parents and districts surrounding special education. They are trained on new laws by ODE (Ohio Department of Education).
If you have any more specific questions, please feel free to send me a personal message.
Since I do not know more about your son's age/grade, dx (diagnosis), school history, interventions already in place, etc. I cannot offer much more information.
Good Luck to both you and your son for a future happy and successful educational experience.
S.

I'm not sure you CAN get him an IEP. Legally they'd have to find that he has some diagnosable condition which falls under IDEA and is impacting his access to the core curriculum. Simply a diagnosable condition doesn't necessarily qualify him. That said... you might think about a 504 plan. Students who don' t qualify for an IEP can still have a 504 plan that lists specific accommodations to be made for your child.

Separately, I'm surprised that any school official would grab or yell at your son because he is upset. Hmmm, maybe I need to know a bit more about what you mean by "upset" and "problems controlling his emotions." Generally, teacher and administrators don't put their hands on a child for discipline unless they are risking the safety of themselves or another child and need to be restrained. I'm a middle school teacher and I almost never yell at students, and if I do it's a "Hey, cut it out!" in a situation that calls for it... I've never known teacher to yell at children because they are upset.

Good luck with this.

T.

I'm with Denise - just shocked that grabbing kids and yelling at them would be considered the norm. Does the school district have anything to say about that? That can't be the accepted standard?! I wonder if there is another school near you with a more rational principal where you can get an inner-district transfer. If not, then yes, by all means get an IEP.

The other thing I'm wondering is if there is a gifted and talented program, or charter school within the district where your son might be more challenged. My husband was a "problem child" until he was moved into a gifted program. He was so challenged that he forgot to fight everyone all the time! He ended up doing very well in school. Just a thought.

Preeti G. seems to be very knowledgeable, but I wish she had explained what "dx" means!

Sounds like some kind of procedure plan needs to be created---some kind of "cool down" time, and that sort of thing. I guess it all depends on what your son does when he gets emotional.
If you feel like the school is making your son's troubles worse, consider home schooling.

There is a difference between treating a child "differently" and treating a child in a way that will get the desired result. Maybe the principal is too stressed to realize that getting the desired result in a shorter time is better for her...

The "normal" way they treat the kids is to "grab them and yell at them"?!!!

Get an IEP.

As I understand it, an IEP is to help with a learning disability. A 504 is to require the school to provide certain adjustments based on physical needs so that a child can learn. I'm not familiar with 504 plans at all except on this site. Both of my grandchildren have IEPs. One is for speech difficulties and the other for ADHD. My grandson has an IEP after having been evaluated by a special office within the school district. My granddaughter's IEP was devised within her school.

I suggest that you will need one or the other in order to get the school's co-operation if they are refusing it now. Once you have an IEP or 504 the school district is required by law to follow the plan. However, as you probably realize from your own experience, being forced to do something rarely gets the best results.

I suggest that you contact the Intermediate Education Service District within your county and learn about the process for obtaining an IEP and ask them about your son and for advice on how to talk with your son's school. The IESD probably already has contacts at the school. I urge you to treat the school as if they are willing to co-operate.

After learning the language associated with IEPs and the Federal No Child Left Behind law make an appointment with the principal and have another talk. If his school has a counselor talk with her first. She is most likely to understand better about your son's needs.

Are you sure that the school personnel grab and yell at him? This is an unprofessional way to act. Could the principal be telling you that they treat all children the way that you're asking them to treat your son?

Does your son have a diagnosis? Is his condition such that he does need something different than the usual expectations of good behavior and the usual consequences for poor behavior? If so, then I'd ask the professionals at Children's Hospital to write a letter to the principal describing his condition and outlining the best way to handle his misbehavior.

When you say he has problems controlling his emotions are you referring to anger? If so, how does he express his anger? In what way can his teacher and other personnel help him to prevent becoming angry or to defuse his anger once it's in motion? Keep in mind that your son is just one of many children that the teacher is responsible for and how she manages your son may have to be different than the way you are able to manage him.

If by emotions, you mean he's depressed and easily discouraged do the same as I outlined above with a focus on depression and discouragement.

Be sure to include information for the school about what you are doing about the situation and how Children's Hospital is helping you and your son. The more that school personnel know about his situation the more likely they will be sympathetic and willing to be of assistance.

You don't say how old your son is. This might make a difference in how you handle this situation.

The most important thing that you can do to get school co-operation is to be calm, treat personnel in a professional manner expecting the same from them and give them as much information as possible. Assume the best from them, realizing that if they are not co-operative, either you or they need more information.

The laws are restrictive in how a school can help a child. Your son has to have a diagnosis before getting an IEP. The only way they can help a child without a disability and IEP is to place them in special ed classrooms. Schools and teachers are not equipped to handle the special needs of many children today and placing them in a special ed classroom is not always the best answer. Go to Wrightslaw.com. They are advocates for children and IEP's. They supply wonderful articles in their newsletters that approach problems being seen today. I would like to say that if a teacher grabbed my kid, I would be in the principal's face. Teachers should be able to handle their classroom without yelling. You should also research exactly what an IEP means and the rules regarding them. Bottom line is that in a public school you are not going to get them to understand your child and his needs. They expect the kids to all act the same and fit in. Also, if you push too hard, he will be labeled and school will be hell for him. Check out Wrightslaw and get a full diagnosis of what your child's problems are and research how to do deal with them. An inability to control his emotions can mean several things. Educate yourself because you are the one who will advocate for your child.

Rae W: "dx" is just a medical way of abbreviating the word "diagnosis." That's all!

R.:

I imagine that your son's problems are extreme enough to be working with a children's hospital. Does he have a diagnosis that would be covered under an IEP? I personally think and IEP is a good way to go. It's a legal document that holds the school accountable for how they educate your son. It doesn't mean he needs to stay on it for his entire school life. Once he learns the skills to self-regulate his emotions, he may not need it anymore.

Like others, I'm a bit horrified that the principal considers speaking to children calmly as differential treatment. Yikes!

BTW, I'm a mom to a 6-year old girl with Asperger's. She also has a high IQ with problems regulating her emotions (along with other issues). The IEP has been a good thing for her. I don't regret putting her on one.

C.
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Wow. First off if I was told that, then my son would be pulled from the school, if not immediately then by the end of the year. I would also be having a major word with someone higher up if yelling at children and grabbing them used at the school. Stern voices and other forms of punishment need to be used. Those poor children...all of them!
I have a child who becomes very introverted and won't talk. He has "failed" many many assessment tools because he rushes through them or refuses to speak due to nerves. His teachers, even before his IEP, have all been MORE than willing to work with him to help HIM do the BEST he can do. That's what they are there for afterall right? Make sure each child succeeds at their own particular level??
My other comment was about the IEP. I LOVE LOVE LOVE ours. It's not a diagnosis, it's not used as a label per say, but it helps all his teachers and everyone around him know that he has some issues and here's his goals and here's how we are working to reach them. It also got him help from the school and district psycologist to help him deal with the day to day issues at school as they occur. He has found comfort in his psychologist and trust her enough that when there is a problem he can go to her and talk it out with her...he does this with me and no one else but her. So it's a HUGE step for us. An IEP is NOT a bad thing. Often times they outgrow them. Many kids have them and no one is made fun of or bullied because they have an IEP. I wouldn't be so hesistant to drag your feet about looking into getting one.

Go to wrightslaw.com and look there. It has tons of advice on your legal rights, and the school's legal rights, so you can get an idea of what you and your son are entitled to. Also has tips for working with the schools, not against them.

The 1st step is to request an IEP meeting with the school - they have 60 schools days (or is it 45? I can't remember for sure) from the date they receive the letter to hold the meeting. Before the meeting he'll be evaluated by specialists to determine if he has a disability (and therefore qualify for an IEP). It's best to have an outside source (like Children's Hospital) to give a diagnosis. If there's an outside diagnosis the school often won't even bother with an evaluation, but go straight to an IEP meeting.

There's also a 504 Plan. If your son doesn't qualify for an IEP, then you can go that route.

An IEP gives special education and usually involves something outside of the normal classroom like speech therapy, meetings with school psychologist, physical therapy, etc. A 504 is accomodations made within the classroom -- making sure he sits near the teacher's desk, permission to 'play' with a small ball or cloth or other item for sensory issues, permission to stand up and walk around when needed, a part-time aide to assist at end of day to make sure everything needed for homework is in backpack, etc. I gave examples for my ADHD/AS/Anxiety son because that's what I'm familiar with. He has a 504, not an IEP.

Since he's gifted (like my son), make sure the school is addressing that - you didn't say. In most cases, once these kids are actually challenged at school, the behavior issues mostly go away. They are bored to death and not used to thinking during school and therefore get very frustrated.

Another good resource is your state's Dept of Education website. Look up their policies regarding gifted students and special education. Also look for 'twice exceptional' or '2e' kids on google (gifted and also having learning disabilities) - you'll find lots of good info. There are several good mailing lists for parents of these kids and I've found them to be very helpful over the past year since my son was found to be a 2e kid.

Some schools are, unfortunatly, not very accepting of children with problems. Every single child in that school IS different. No two children are the same and saying that she should not have to treat your child differently is really difficult to understand. There is another plan, other than an IEP, and I think it's called a 401 plan. Please don't quote me on the what it is called but it does provide you some support for what is needed for your child. I would suggest talking to Children's Hospital about what your options are and then ask for a meeting to discuss the options with the school. If the principal remains closed I would suggest going higher.

I agree that having the school do a behavior assessment is a good idea. It would be their expert doing the assessment, hopefully someone who has seen similar kids before, and is supposed to look at WHY the behaviors are occurring. You should still get a report from the hospital to show the school in case you disagree with the school's results.
But even with an IEP, you still need a behavior improvement plan that works. I have a couple of friends in the same school district, and I 'm sure they had IEPs, whose kids were locked in a dark closet or restroom because the teachers thought this would calm them down.
Before Christmas, the plan for my son was that if he misbehaved he would have to write a long apology letter. He would be sent to the office for hours at a time, go back to the classroom and immediately repeat the same behavior and be sent back again. They would refuse to give him lunch until after school let out because he wasn't writing fast enough. Sometimes they would call me to come up and calm him down. It was very sad to see the point to which they'd pushed him. To me, he looked like a crazed animal in a cage. In the office he would spit and kick at the teachers, knock over furniture, try to run away, curl up in a little ball in the corner, lick the walls, and tell everyone that ghosts were haunting the school.
After Christmas, things got much better. ADHD meds decreased the behaviors he was being punished for(such as humming), and writing and taking away lunch are no longer part of the punishments. They are doing a much better job of recognizing BEFORE he melts down, and send him out of the classroom for a break. This could be working with a teacher one-on-one somewhere quiet or doing something physical like delivering copy paper. He's being sent to the office less than once a month instead of once a day.

Ideally, you would be friendly with his teachers, and they would want the best for your child. So before you get to the point of mentioning legal action to the school, you could try the "we're all in this together" approach one more time. You're concerned that their methods aren't teaching him effective coping skills. You want to make things easier on his teachers and the other kids. Get everyone on the same page. Share your strategies and experiences that have been very successful at home.
Then, when that doesn't work try for the IEP. The advice I hear is make all your requests in writing and take lots of notes every time you speak with the school. Sometimes it can help to bring a friend or advocate to the meetings so the school doesn't try to bully you or claim they said something different later.

Hi R.,

I am familiar with IEP's and 504 Plans, (some), with my experiences with children with ADD/ADHD. If your son's school is unwilling to meet basic requests, (like talking calmingto a CHILD!), they would probably not willing follow a plan that is not enforcable.

I suggest asking your school to have your son evaluated for an IEP, which they are required to. If it's determained he qualifies, you can write into the IEP how the teachers should interact with your child.

Best of luck.

R. Magby

I believe someone mentioned an IEP for a gifted child--I don't think a gifted child gets an IEP just for being gifted. (now, if the child is very intelligent, yet the grades don't reflect this, this would be indicative of some form of learning disability, and then an IEP could be put in place).

Also, in our district anyway, gifted programs are woefully inadequate. There are not nearly enough slots for all the kids who could be called gifted and who could benefit from them, so there are a whole bunch of criteria the gifted kids have to meet before they may participate in the gifted program. Any issues of being unable to control emotions/behavior would probably be grounds for not accepting him into such a program here.

Have you lookied into any nutritional /dietary issues with the docs at Children's? I know that wasn't part of your quesiton, but I have heard of kids responding dramatically when allergenic foods are removed from their diet. Try reading the work of Dr. Doris Rapp.

Good luck!

K. Z.

I think some of the staff at the schools have no idea how to deal with children and they are suppose to be trained in such matters. How is not grabbing and yelling at a child treating him differently from anyone else? Grabbing and yelling should not be done with anyone. It does not solve the problem but only makes it worse.
If you are giving them advice on how to deal with your child (plus advice from someone at children's hospital who has training in how to deal with emotional children) why can't they accept it? Especially since their method does not work.
I think the staff needs some training more than he needs the IEP. However, if the IEP specifically states how he should be dealt with then they would need to follow it.

Ok, I don't know how your state works this. But I live in Florida and I am an ESE/Gifted teacher. If your son does not have a diagnosed condition for his emotional issues but has a high IQ (high enough for Gifted services) he needs an EP/IEP for his Giftedness, depending on what your state calls it. Then you can add a 504 plan for his emotional needs. I have this for several of my students.
If he does have a diagnosis for his emotional issues (depending on what it is), he can have an IEP and that will allow him to have services for his emotional issues and his Giftedness (if he qualifies). IEP's/EP's are legal paperwork and have to be followed. I say go for an IEP and/or 504 as I see nothing wrong with having one. Allow him to get the help he needs. Good luck.