7 Year Old and Clowning

You may think I am crazy, but this is what I did. My 4th grader became the class clown, disrupting, etc. His teacher would give "marks" that would accumulate to a certain number and then it was referred to the principal. Well, all those marks meant nothing to him. The teacher called me. I went to the school and pulled him out of class. I told him if he disrupted or got one more mark, I would be laying the leather to his behind at home to the equivalent number of marks. AND IF THAT didn't work, I would bring the leather belt to the school, pull him out of class and wear his butt out in the hall. He looked at me with wide eyes and asked, "Right here in front of all my friends???" I said YES! He never got another mark, never disrupted his teacher's class anymore. The punishment for misbehavior should be immediate. I never had to use that belt, but HE believed I would! And I would have used it if he hadn't straightened up!

Sounds like classic ADD/ADHD. They compensate by clowning and drawing attention away from their inability to concentrate and listen. I know everyone thinks it is over diagnosed, but when that IS the diagnosis, they need help. Many times for them, the old mentality of if I don't try, I can't fail. It is a coping mechanism as are many of his behaviors. Get him tested...if you need names, let me know.

Do you think he has some auditory processing issues that he covers up with clowning?

My youngest has difficulty hearing it all and processing what is being said. We are working on that using the ND approach to learning, and he is so much happier. www.littlegiantsteps.com

J.

i don't have a lot of advice to give regarding this subject...but when i was 5 and first enrolled in school, i remember making the class laugh because i ran under the table to hide when it thundered outside. from that point on i was addicted to the attention and was a class clown up through high school (well, even college now at times!) it might be difficult to control, and it is important for your son to understand rules and boundaries...but it sounds to me like you have a little leader on your hands!! congrats and good luck!

p.s. society has a problem with diagnosing people with "learning disorders" just because they are a little different than the rest of the herd. it may not hurt to get your son evaluated if you truly think there is a problem...but keep in mind that doctors are paid to diagnose and prescribe. i mean, he's SEVEN for christ's sake!!

My 6-yr-old is a lot like this and he does not have ADHD, or Asperger's, or a learning disability. He's gifted. He can focus forever on a task he's interested in, but is easily bored with some of the more mundane work at school. He's also a clown and very sociable and talkative, which I think is partly due to genetics but also a need to be accepted and not appear different from the other kids -- gifted kids are sometimes hyper-aware of how others perceive them. A strong sense of humor is also indicative of high intelligence along with high energy and being able to look at things in lots of different ways. My guy is a negotiator; he argues with everything I say in hopes of getting his way or being able to do it his own way instead of my way. It drives me insane sometimes, but at the same time, I'm really proud of him!Anyway, I certainly wouldn't dismiss the possibility of ADHD or the other things -- only you know your child -- but giftedness is definitely something else you should check into! (although no easier to deal with -- gifted kids are just as "special needs" as those traditionally considered special needs; gifted kids also can be both gifted and have learning disabilities, too). And I wish I had more practical advice for you, but I'm still trying to learn how to deal with it myself. But I think understanding and being aware of what is driving his behavior is the first step. It helps me so much to know that "okay, he acts like this because he's really smart..." And my son's teacher this year is wonderful -- she understands that every kid works at different skill levels and works to make sure each child gets work that matches their individual level. Gifted kids don't need more work, they need different work and some teachers just need to be made aware of this.

Anyway, I could go on and on! Here are some web sites I've found with some good info about giftedness:

http://www.ri.net/gifted_talented/character.html
http://www.sengifted.org/
http://www.txgifted.org/
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/index.htm

Good luck! :)

Yep, he is a SMART boy. I have a feeling too smart for his own good! His brain is still going at a level that would exhaust others! While others are dealing with "what did my teacher say?" he is making up other conditions and itterations that could entertain his mind while others are struggling. I am sorry to smile at a situation that is obviously causing you worry for his future but I am going to tell you it is not so bad. A whole lot of this behavior will work itself out as he ages and has more responsibility. For one thing he needs one on one teaching as much as he can get. It would be better for him to have his own piano teacher because all these kids are going to do is slow him down and give him opportunities to "show out". Give him as much responsibility as you can at home and suggest it at school, he can handle it. The only cure for an active mind is an activity. You will nearly exhaust yourself trying to keep one step ahead of him but it is better than him having time on his hands to get in trouble. Try a role playing switch, you be him, the student, let him be the teacher and play out the situation with the activity books, make sure he has a goal in mind for the lesson, say to teach you notes in 5 mins.
Be sure to talk to his teachers and let them know his situation and suggest that they keep him busy and not be afraid to give him time outs and disapline as he needs it. The hardest part of raising children is sometimes sticking to the things you know are right even when they don't look like they are having an effect..consistancy. You are doing the right things, hang in there! He will be a joy to you if you keep on keeping on and deal directly with it everyday it will work out well. Don't forget you have a Heavenly Father to depend on for strength and wisdom. Find out if your school has a Moms in Touch prayer group from the school or momsintouch.org Don't expect him to be like you or be anything other than what he is, God don't make no junk! He has a purpose for a child/man who is a thinker and questions authority! It is just not easy raising him!
B.

S.,
I have to tell you from what you described your son sounds smart and unafraid to challenge. I think I like him! He also sounds like a challenging child to raise. Did you stick with Love and Logic or just try it a week??? I really believe in it. Get your son tested, privately if you can afford it. Instead of guessing this will help you know how to handle him. I struggled with my son like this and discovered he had multiple learning differences as well as ADD. The teachers couldn't handle him. We moved him to a small private school with small classrooms and things improved immensely. Many of these school have scholarships if that is out of your range, etc... Sounds like you have a smart boy. I believe these kids that struggle are often our shining stars as adults. My boy is about to graduate high school by the way. Age 7 was tough business, but he is getting ready for college now and is a great kid. Good Luck!

I have no response. I want to see other's responses b/c I am kind of in the same boat with my almost 7 year old boy! Sorry I can't help.

I would consider reading a book Positive Parenting with a Plan by Matthew Johnson and implementing it. It's different than love & logic.

Website www.family-rules.com

I also think go see a counselor and get him tested.
Take care and God bless.

Have you taken him to a child counselor? You need to get to the root of why he needs so much attention. There could be some issues he is hiding and this is the only way he knows how to adjust to handle it. He is still young, a kid and he is jsut not mature enough to see down the road. You may look into a theatre class too. A place where he is allowed to be crazy and come to life, to be animated. He may love the attention and really blossom. I use to teach at our local theatre and we had many kids that came to us for the outlet. They were usually the strongest actors we had. They were not afraid to express themselves and really get into a character. Theatre is a wonderful escape for both child and parents. It give the parents a way to appreciate all of the energy and creative juices their child has in a positive enviroment. Good luck!

Dear S. A:

Your son sounds like my brother when we were growing up. My brother turned out to be a great guy, so keep hope! With my brother's behavior it was all about attention. He didn't care if it was good or bad -- just attention!!

A combination of things worked for him. 1: My parents kept him extremely busy with sports. He had a high energy level and that seemed to calm him down in school. 2: My parents talked to his teachers. When he started disrupting class, instead of putting him on the spot and dressing him down in front of the class the teacher would ignore his behavior or quietly put him in the hall or the corner.

The answer seemed to be DON'T reward the behavior with any attention. Getting quietly dealt with and losing the attention of the other kids or the teacher was the worst punishment for him.

Hope this helps a little.

L. F., mother of an almost 13-year-old daughter

Dear Soffita, Have you spoken to the teacher about whether or not he is able to stay on task at school. I don't mean to suggest that all children that do this are ADHD, but it is a common characteristic. These children are very impulsive. They also will say or do things in social situations that are not acceptable. Of course some do it because they need extra attention or they are just strong willed children. Either way, it is something that needs to be addressed. As he gets older, he may not be included in social activities outside of school. The result of this behavior is so damaging to one's self-esteem. I would definitely suggest that he be evaluated. Have you spoken to his doctor about these behaviors. Professionals can suggest many options. I think at this point I would ask for a referral from the doctor to consult with someone. Good Luck, K.

Hi S.,
Have you looked into martial arts at all? It's great for learning respect and discipline. I'm not sure where you live, but I am in Plano and my son attends USA Martial Arts. It's been amazing for him. I do know they have several locations. Check out their website www.usamartialartsfitness.com. Even if you don't go with them, I would get them into some kind of martial arts program. If you don't do something about it now, it will just get worse.

I would abandon the reasoning part and go to something more concrete that he will understand. i would take something out of his room EVERY time he back talked. my son goes straight to timeout when his mouth "runs" and i give no warning. it is unacceptable to be disrespectful. i seldom have to go as far as take things from my son, but when i do, i put it somewhere he can see it (i've had a large collection on my dining room table before)...he may not have anything in his room left....you could even reverse it and take all of his things out of his room and let him earn them back if he can have a successful day. you just have to be consistant.

Seeking attention and this is his way of receiving the attention. Also, you might have him tested for ADHD/AHH never know. In the mean time, if you set a punishment do not back away from the punishment. Stick to it. Or start ignoring the unwelcoming behavior. Read Dr. Phil's website.

Have you ever considered Aesperger's disorder? Kids with Aesperger's have trouble with social skills and behavior and often cannot read nonverbal clues (like the sternness of your face when he's in trouble or the lack of humor people may find in his 'jokes'). That could be why he doesn't respond to repeated discipline, especially when his behavior is clearly not the example that you set. Google it and see if it fits. With my son, when I saw that his outward behavior did not fit his "heart" I knew there must be a missing piece to the puzzle and Aesperger's fits it perfectly. I'll admit to you, though, that admitting to yourself as a mother that there may be something "not right" with your child is truly the hardest hurdle to cross, but if you can do it and find that is the answer you will be so glad you did, for his sake.

Look into ADHD. My son can act like this. He needs lots of one on one attention in group situations. He's not trying to be bad or clowning when he asks all these questions, he's just truly wondering. I mean he can't. His brain probably didn't even see the logic that the books K and 1 weren't applicable to the class. He really wanted to know the answer. He felt as if they were important details because that's where the train of thought took him. If you try to ignore it, the train will derail and he will get frustrated. however if the question is answered with details he might have been able to move on. I know my son will. He's got to finish his train of thought and sometimes it's just faster to let him than redirect him. The problem is that sometimes kids whose brains go that fast and who think of all the other details are often found to be behavior problems even when it was never the intention.

You don't have to chose medication. My son is on a diet that eliminates all artificials (colors, flavors, preservatives). It's amazing how much his behavior and ability to focus change with these out of his system. He can drop subjects and ignore insignificant details so much better without these things in his body. He still notices the details, but he doesn't obsess about them. Our problem this week is that he's had to be on medication for the last two weeks. Children's medication is chock full of artificials. Yesterday was the last day, thank God! Yesterday was a very challenging day the logic of cause and effect was lost on him. If something popped into his head, he had to accomplish it despite disobeying. Dad was trying to get him ready for bed while I finished the dishes. They brushed teeth and then headed to my son's room to get pj's. My son took off down the hall to the kitchen despite Dad's instructions to go straight to his room. My husband ended up yelling and calling for him to come back, but he couldn't until he made sure that I knew he had brushed really well and was going for his pajamas. I mean he showed me inside and out, up and down, that he brushed everywhere. He never needs to tell me this, but last night it was of life or death importance.

I have a friend with a third grader who also got in trouble regularly. He is kind and bright. One day he got sent to the office and suspended (this was the end of many office referrals). He was making funny noises and bumping into people in the halls, waiting in line at the bathroom. The teacher didn't even bother to find out what he was doing, just sent him to the office. The principal called Mom, and the story came out. He was walking with his eyes closed, trying to see if echolocation worked for people. They had been read about it in class that day. He never even thought that trying it out might hurt/annoy people. I mean, do you punish kids for their misguided curiosity or do you find an environment where it can be directed?

I think you should listen to Keir B.'s response...she sounds 'right on' to me.

As a teacher and a mom(2 boys, 7 and 12) I personally would stick with the Love and Logic. It is real world and it helps to keep the focus on his behavior and not on you as being the bad guy for taking the responsibility. I would also partner up with the other adults involved (piano teacher, teacher at schoo) and set a plan all the way around him, so that you are all a team and he realizes that respect and proper choices are expected everywhere. I would have had my seven year old pay me for that piano class (and work off the payment if he doesn't get allowance) and also I would also ask the piano teacher to have him pay her back my coming in sometime to do something to replace the time and energy he took from her. Love and Logic can be labor intensive up front, but boy does it work and save time in the long run, plus most importantly it helps to raise responsible, successful children.

It sounds like he is very impulsive and has problems controlling his impulses. It's very common for ADHD kids to shout out answers and say whatever comes to their mind without thinking. They are also very smart and loving kids.
I would test him for ADHD.

First of all I would like to say I have been there and still dealing with this issue. I have a 8 year old and I deal with it by working really close with his teacher on how to change the behavior. First by taking him out of the element where he can be a class clown keep him sitting by the teacher for a while not with the students. If that doesnt help next take away recess and let him know school is not a game it is for learning. And continue the process at home for every outburst there is a consequence and he will realize this once he has lost everything and needs to earn it all back. He will appreciate it all more once he gets older but I wish you luck on this.

I recommend finding a way that he can channel his energy. I work at Legends Martial Arts. We are in Hurst, but I know there are probably some schools out there as well. It gives him a chance to kind of "let loose" and then also learn respect for himself, and others. Also the discipline learned is amazing. The self esteem always needs a boost to help us, and its also a great way to find out that you can do amazing things that you never knew where there. If you have any questions, I would be happy to assist.

Good luck!

One more vote in favor of some professional evaluation. Smart kids who don't understand why they can't seem to do what the teacher wants them to do divert attention from this embarrassing under-performance. It may be some kind of learning difference, and once everyone involved understands the underlying issues, you can start making some real progress. Don't be afraid of a label that describes some kind of processing glitch in his brain. If it helps him understand that he's not dumb, it's well worth it. It doesn't mean he can't achieve anything he wants to in life; it just means he might need to find a different path to get there. My husband is ADHD and mildly dyslexic. He got help when he was 8 at a special school where all the teachers were trained in the best methods for these kids, and class size was small enough he could get the attention he needed. He graduated from Yale University, then got a PhD from Cambridge University in England. His 3rd book will be published this Spring. He felt finished with his teaching/writing career after 10 years, so now he's a successful financial advisor. In our house, an all natural diet and lots of excerise are essential. I constantly research new therapies, trying to find things that might help. I'm willing to try almost anything if I'm sure it can't hurt my kids.

Our oldest (almost 8) is in her 3rd year at Shelton, and really thriving. Our middle child is surviving in preschool at age 5 1/2, and if all goes well will enter Shelton in the fall where he too will get the support he needs to thrive academically, socially and emotionally. A Shelton administrator said to me recently that other schools try to treat the behavior problem; Shelton treats the learning difficulty and the behavior problems disappear.

Your child is unique. You know him best. You have to decide the right course of action for your family, but more information on the range of possibilities can only help you make a better decision.

Good luck.
S.
SAHM of 3

My heart goes out to you. I know how stressful a difficult child can be. Do not give in to the little (or not so little) voice inside that says you are a bad parent. You have a challenging child and you are seeking ways to help him. I have a few suggestions, just try what you think is best. Talk to your physician and/or the school about a couselor to test him for ADHD. I wouldn't jump on the medication bandwagon just yet, explore other possibilities. You can do food challenges by eliminating foods that are known for allergies or sensitivities. Cutting way back on sugar in any form, also food coloring, and adding vegetarian calcium suppliments made a world of difference in my son. Meanwhile, whatever else you do, the behavior at home has to be addressed. There must be rules of behavior and respect that must be consistantly enforced at home. Decide ahead of time on an effective discipline: time out in his room or in a boring corner, no TV or gameboy for the next hour, 20 jumping jacks, 10 push-ups, whatever. Don't be his victim, don't whine or plead or yell, just enforce the rules calmly. Wheither he has ADHD or not, he must learn self-control and acceptable rules for functioning in society. Don't give up, but be ready for the long haul. You said he acts out to get the extra attention, but then you say he seems to be pretty comfortable... He's not. When my son was older and could better describe what he was feeling, he came to me crying one day. He told me he felt like an electric current was starting in his brain and then surging through his body and he just had to DO something to discharge it. He also felt the social stigma of being shunned by schoolmates and disliked by teachers because he was so disruptive. When he finally felt the repercussions of his behavior he was then more cooperative in learning how to control it. These children are worth the extra effort.